250GRN XPB TERMINAL PERFORMANCE 1300LB B&C BROWN BEAR

Post pictures and tell us all about the critters you harvested with your Thumper.

Moderator: MudBug

Re: 250GRN XPB TERMINAL PERFORMANCE 1300LB B&C BROWN BEAR

Postby 1fullmag » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:11 pm

Congrats thats a awsome bear!
now I cant wait for september when I can head up to minnasota for some blackbear hunting with my new 450bm.
User avatar
1fullmag
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 5:59 pm
Location: cedar hill, mo.

Re: 250GRN XPB TERMINAL PERFORMANCE 1300LB B&C BROWN BEAR

Postby alaskabushmaster » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:18 am

You might want to handload some Barnes busters or FMJs for the black bears. The ftx blows big holes in the hide and ruins meat. I've blown entrance wounds big enough to put my fist in with the ftx. They kill black bears dead for sure but think about a deep penetrating non hide destroying bullet
MOM I WANNA GO FAST!!!! "RICKEY BOBBY"
User avatar
alaskabushmaster
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: 250GRN XPB TERMINAL PERFORMANCE 1300LB B&C BROWN BEAR

Postby wildcatter » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:31 pm

I'm not criticizing and one, who criticizes, in the face of success, is a fool, and I'm not going to be foolish here.

My Goal is to improve the science and open a dialog, to bigger and better performance.

Ok, Here goes,

I believe that the 250gr XPB was the wrong bullet for this bear. It worked and who am I to disagree with success, but I have other fish to fry.

The 250XPB has a Hugh & Deep Hollow point, the back half is a solid, weighting about 150gr +-. When the bullet hit the Bear, it shed pedals and stopped on the skin of the off-side, killing the animal. The animal did a header (Bang/Flop) got up and ran 35yds (if memory serves). As it was shot at close range, what would have happened if the animal had instead, charged? Well, if Zeek, our Hero, had, had a lever gun or worst a bolt gun, he’d have been mauled, there not being enough time, to work the actions, to get follow-up shots on the animal. The Safety of quick, reliable, and powerful follow-up shots, is a very wonderful insurance policy, don’t you think, one that we have uniquely?

The 250 XPB -vs- a 230gr FMJ-FP, just as an example, you would think that the 250 being only 20gr more weight, they’d move at about the same speed and preform approximately the same, right, N'est-ce pas (tis not so).

The XPB is .950” long and he FMJ is .650” long. You can overcome the deficiencies is lessor weight if you have two things, bullet construction and speed. In other words, what if you had a mythological 45cal solid, flat point that moved at 10,000fps, how would that compare to the xpb or any other bullet, of any caliber, for that matter, and they at normal speeds. The XPB occupies a whole bunch more powder real-estate, than the 230gr. So, the 230 is going to go significantly faster and it has the construction to stay together and the flat-point is going to disrupt much more tissue and exit the animal, in question.

Why exit, when the XPB puts 100% of its energy in the animal, stopping on the far side skin? That 100% is a mere pittance, compared to a properly constructed bullet that dumps allot of energy, out the far side of the animal. To do this, the energy it displaces inside, is ferocious, to say nothing of the over-all internal damage, made from a much larger wound channel.

Statement: Flat-point bullets displace, way more tissue than an expanded bullet (generally with all things being equal) and won’t slow down like expanded bullets have too, comparatively speaking..

We killed a moose once, with one of my 45 cal. creations, using one of the FMJ’s, I believe it was a FP with a TexasSheepDawg Heart shot, the bullet exited the chest of the bull, traveling the full length of the animal, and also killed a cow, that was standing 90 degrees and in front of the Bull, at the right spot. That’s way more tissue depth, than our Hero’s bear has and the bullet had enough left on it, to kill another moose. We've seen this kind of thing time and time again!

I think, from a lifetime of Professional-Hunting and from my Ballistics Studies, he was lucky that the bear ran away from him, but to be sure, it did do a Bang-Flop. I am a proponent of, use enough caliber, use the correctly constructed bullet for the job (I love non-expanding flat-points, FMJ’s, Barnes Busters and the like) and penetrate the animal, for increased internal damage.

I hope, I included enough provisos, because you can pick this apart, but the fact will remain, he kilt the Bar, I’m just saying, with the hundreds of bullets we have to choose from, you can have more insurance.

Zeek, after doing this great feat (and I detract nothing from this truly great feat) and you had to do it again, only this time it charged one of your kids before you could a shot off, would you have chosen a 325gr Barnes Buster, instead or some other bullet??

..t
Safety First..t
User avatar
wildcatter
 
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:30 pm
Location: In the Middle of Deer Central Station or better known as, in the Thumb of Beautiful Michigan

Re: 250GRN XPB TERMINAL PERFORMANCE 1300LB B&C BROWN BEAR

Postby alaskabushmaster » Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:25 pm

well yes and no. I have used the XPB on a few critters now and it has done well. That being said, for dangerous game there are better options. Like my previous post in this thread I would load barnes busters or a flat point fmj. I will say though the wound channel with the XPB was impressive but only in the first 14 inches or so then the expanded bullet with a facial diameter of 3/4 in slowed down quick. The buster or flat face FMJ will throw a fairly wide wound channel through the whole animal. I wish I could draw pictures on here to explain what I mean. You will have proponents of a bullet that dumps it energy inside an animal completely and doesn't pass through ex. nosler ballistic tips at high velocity. The other school of thought is a heavy slower bullet that passes through and can penetrate a cow ex. 45-70 400grn hard cast. Then there is the Wildcatter school of sensible logic. Combine a heavy flat nose bullet at high velocity that will make a wound channel like an expanding bullet but still penetrate a cow. Yall get me? Now I am not saying the XPB will not kill big things, stick with heart/lung and rib shots to take advantage of the massive upset inside the chest and you will be fine. Be aware there are better choices for big things with claws and sharp teeth.
MOM I WANNA GO FAST!!!! "RICKEY BOBBY"
User avatar
alaskabushmaster
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: 250GRN XPB TERMINAL PERFORMANCE 1300LB B&C BROWN BEAR

Postby alaskabushmaster » Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:48 pm

Image

This is a very crude attempt to illustrate what I mean. If you are a math whiz calculate the inside surface area of the ovals and tell me which has a better wound channel? If I am mistaken please correct me. Some people will say the hollow point cavity is the best because the heart and lungs will be inside the massive upset. That may be true on a deer or blackie but maybe not on a big brown bear or moose. That massive upset might only be in the shoulder and then wheres your energy? Yup you are going to have an big animal with three good legs beating your tail.
MOM I WANNA GO FAST!!!! "RICKEY BOBBY"
User avatar
alaskabushmaster
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: 250GRN XPB TERMINAL PERFORMANCE 1300LB B&C BROWN BEAR

Postby BillytheKid » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:26 pm

Yup you are going to have an big animal with three good legs beating your tail


LOL!

This is one of the best lines I've ever read!

LOL!
"Now I am Breitbart, and there are millions more of us." - Me
User avatar
BillytheKid
 
Posts: 718
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:51 pm
Location: California

Re: 250GRN XPB TERMINAL PERFORMANCE 1300LB B&C BROWN BEAR

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:33 pm

You fellas are just taunting me to load up some more flat points at 44.5 grains with the LeGendre crimp and vaporize more milk jugs aren't you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esX614w9 ... ata_player
-Texas Sheepdawg
Join us on FaceBook https://www.facebook.com/groups/Texas.Sheepdawg.Patriots/
http://youtube.com/c/TexasSheepdawg21
NRA Life Member
User avatar
Texas Sheepdawg
 
Posts: 4050
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:55 am
Location: North Texas

Re: 250GRN XPB TERMINAL PERFORMANCE 1300LB B&C BROWN BEAR

Postby wildcatter » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:49 pm

alaskabushmaster wrote:Image

This is a very crude attempt to illustrate what I mean. If you are a math whiz calculate the inside surface area of the ovals and tell me which has a better wound channel? If I am mistaken please correct me. Some people will say the hollow point cavity is the best because the heart and lungs will be inside the massive upset. That may be true on a deer or blackie but maybe not on a big brown bear or moose. That massive upset might only be in the shoulder and then wheres your energy? Yup you are going to have an big animal with three good legs beating your tail.


This is a darn good representation of what is going on with a Hollow Point vs a well constructed Flat-point. I made my representation and it can be found in the attachment

You'll notice the erectile material, representation. This is a very significant Phenomenon, one in which is Horrific, in execution. We have killed large game, with a lung-shot, wherein 30% +- of the lung material flies out of the chest cavity and can be found in a cone shape, as high as ten feet, in the trees and 15-20 feet down range, following the bullet path. I suppose these High-Speed, truly Big-Bore Bullets, in the flat-point configuration, have a ton of vacuum, behind the bullet. I have either killed or seen killed, dozens of large game, with FMJ-FP, and heard, many more dozens killed, with an instant, one-shot, lung kill, if the bullet was a FMJ-FP type of bullet (230gr to 405gr)..

..t
Attachments
FLAT-POINT BULLET WOUND CANAL PATH.docx
(25.81 KiB) Downloaded 138 times
Safety First..t
User avatar
wildcatter
 
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:30 pm
Location: In the Middle of Deer Central Station or better known as, in the Thumb of Beautiful Michigan

Re: 250GRN XPB TERMINAL PERFORMANCE 1300LB B&C BROWN BEAR

Postby alaskabushmaster » Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:51 pm

You'll notice the erectile material, representation. This is a very significant Phenomenon, one in which is Horrific, in execution. We have killed large game, with a lung-shot, wherein 30% +- of the lung material flies out of the chest cavity and can be found in a cone shape, as high as ten feet, in the trees and 15-20 feet down range, following the bullet path. I suppose these High-Speed, truly Big-Bore Bullets, in the flat-point configuration, have a ton of vacuum, behind the bullet. I have either killed or seen killed, dozens of large game, with FMJ-FP, and heard, many more dozens killed, with an instant, one-shot, lung kill, if the bullet was a FMJ-FP type of bullet (230gr to 405gr)..


I found a very very small amount of this erectile material just south of my belly button, the phenomenon wasn't very significant. almost horrific how small it was though......hahahahahaha

You are correct though about vacuum, I have a background rooted in fast planes and a degree to back it up. An F22 at mach three creates an area of extremely low pressure behind it that must be filled in as the plane moves forward. Now the bigger the plane the bigger the area of low pressure assuming they are moving at the same speed. A small caliber boat tail bullet has minimal vacuum "low pressure" behind it. A fat flat base bullet moving at lets say a hot 2500 fps will have way more vacuum that a 180grn 7.62 nato moving at the same speed. Now the denser the medium a bullet travels through "ex. flesh" the stronger a vacuum will be
MOM I WANNA GO FAST!!!! "RICKEY BOBBY"
User avatar
alaskabushmaster
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: 250GRN XPB TERMINAL PERFORMANCE 1300LB B&C BROWN BEAR

Postby alaskabushmaster » Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:04 am

Funny story, my first large black bear was taken in virginia with a savage 10ML magnum. This is a smokeless powder muzzle loader with horrific killing potential if you are smart. I loaded it with h110 and 250grn poly tipped projectile. Its been so long I don't remember the maker of the bullet. Thats not important though. The bullet was moving at about 2400fps and it sucked a lung almost intact out of that bear and it was hanging by a thread on the hide on the far side. It was odd for sure but it never crossed my mind till now what happened.
MOM I WANNA GO FAST!!!! "RICKEY BOBBY"
User avatar
alaskabushmaster
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:41 pm

PreviousNext

Return to The Trophy Wall

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests