Colorado Bear

[wildcatter]

Hi folks and thanks for the nice replies. Yes, he is one happy hunter for sure. He also has a bull moose tag for N. Park Colorado, so should be a really great year.

Sheepdawg - Rush hasn't been around that I know of recently. And Lone Cone - wow that is in the hinterlands (at least from here) and have been in that country twice and it is a great place to visit. Crossing the Dolores is a beautiful drive as well. We usually hunt bear north of there on the Umcompraghe but didn't want to wait for the points so took a chance close to home. SW Colorado I think is the best part of the state and still very very wild. Places where wolves come up from New Mexico and the last (so far) grizzly was killed by an archer in self defense. Your scat story reminds of two years ago on the Umcompraghe getting into a tight spot in the oak brush with a shooting lane in the dark that I sat Dustin on and as it got light so we could start to see, he said something in a whisper about being in a good place for bear and when I asked why he said "I've been sitting in a big pile of bear .... "

Hoot - that is a stock Bushmaster, straight from the factory, with a couple of attachments. I think what you may be seeing is the Swan Sleeve - it extends the rail out over the hand guard. It has a Burris 2.5X handgun scope out toward the muzzle end of the rifle. I have the buttstock 1" extension from Bushmaster on the rifle. Its my attempt at a "scout" rifle version and works pretty well. You can bring it up and keep both eyes open while using the scope. I wanted to use the rifle on bears and boars at closer range in heavier cover, such as draingages here in CO. Also could see using it in oak brush country for bear and deer.

k0ttke_35, yes, both local to Fort Collins.

Thanks again, it was posts to this well moderated sight that convinced me to buy the 450 this year - glad I found the site and also bought the rifle.
Take care,

And, Shore-Nuff, welcome, welcome..

What is going to be the load for the Moose?? The 250FTX's are a tiny bit explosive for that mission, they'll work, but a little fragil. If you don't load, I bet some of these guys would want to try out some of their 230fmj-275xpb-or 325BB's, for that mission and for the price would hapily send them to you??

..t

[ursusjkb]

Thanks Wildcatter,
I agree, I'd hesitate a bit on a once in a life time trophy (Colorado law for bull moose) with the 450. I liked how the 450 worked so well on the bear and it is very accurate out to the range we shot the bear at. But we have not had any experince with it on anything else. And as with many things, it is shot placement that counts so the 250 or heavier could do the job no doubt. I could also see the moose taking a well placed shot and running into the willows - something I'd hate to see happen, something I would not relish walking into the willows for. By the way, my son hand loaded these bullets that killed the bear. In fact he hand loads all the various caliber of rounds we hunt with. He has become quite the sportsmen and I am proud of him.

I killed a big bear about 5 years ago with a 300 Ultra Mag. I killed a moose with it as well about the same time in same place my son has his license now. It has a massive wound channel and hits like a truck, and both of those animals were one shot - drop dead kills. The bear was 175 and the moose was 235 yards. It is a Remington bolt action with free floated 26" bull barrel, on a kevlar stock and a 4X16 Leupold scope. It is a tack driver. I bought it for long distant shots on elk in the sage brush (and killed them as well with it). I am confident we can call a moose in, but the distance of the shot may be close in, and just as likely to be more then 200 yds as mine was, depending on how you set up (close to the willows or above them). So I think we will use that, but will read with interest any other ideas that might be presented here.

You might ask why I bought the 450. Well, you just need to carry that heavy long rifle around in the woods for a while to understand wanting something light weight that carries a punch for things like pigs in SE Colorado, bears in thick brush or deer in oak brush. In fact that 300 was the rifle I was carrying when my son shot this bear. Sometimes I think about putting wheels on it, as it quite the heavy cannon. We wanted to kill a bear with the 450, and I wanted him to be the one to shoot one if we saw one, and that was why he had the 450.

In any event I think we will be able to pick our spot, probably up out of the drainage and the willows and bring the moose by calling into the clearings in the willows you can see from above, know the exact range, and be selective on which one steps out. At least that is what we are thinking now, and probably next weekend we will start scouting for the right moose and spot for season opener of Oct 1.

Thoughts?
Take care

[commander faschisto]

The 450b recently took a 1300lb B&C grizzly in Alaska, so I wouldn't be too hesitant about using it for Bullwinkle, with a Barnes XPB or Buster. Info for loading both is available on the forum here. Good Luck!!!


viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12715&p=34139&hilit=450b+grizzly#p34139

[ursusjkb]

commander faschisto,

Thanks and I saw that posting on the B&C bear. I'd love to see a moose kill with the 450, don't get me wrong, but I've got real life experience with another rifle at hand. But.., didn't buy the 450 without the willingness to give it a go either. We will take a look at what is available here in bullets, loads, and ballistics. Calling moose into range is not a problem, at least that is my humble opinion, so we can set it up any number of ways. I could envision a spotter/caller up high and shooter closer in. I'll talk to the hunter and see what he wants to try as well, it is his license. After the bear, he is a true believer in the 450, so he might be pretty excited about trying it on moose.

Great site, fun to interact with other's as excited about the pursuit as myself.

Take care, and thanks,

[wildcatter]

commander faschisto,

Thanks and I saw that posting on the B&C bear. I'd love to see a moose kill with the 450, don't get me wrong, but I've got real life experience with another rifle at hand. But.., didn't buy the 450 without the willingness to give it a go either. We will take a look at what is available here in bullets, loads, and ballistics. Calling moose into range is not a problem, at least that is my humble opinion, so we can set it up any number of ways. I could envision a spotter/caller up high and shooter closer in. I'll talk to the hunter and see what he wants to try as well, it is his license. After the bear, he is a true believer in the 450, so he might be pretty excited about trying it on moose.

Great site, fun to interact with other's as excited about the pursuit as myself.

Take care, and thanks,

Something to consider, first of all a 300yd shot on a Moose, will be as a walk in the park, "IF", you have the correct loads, sight dope, and are ready for the shot.

A Moose has a 24" kill circle and at 300yds, even a 300Mag, if the hit is anywhere near the outside edge of that circle, won't be harvested, BUUTTT, a 450b, with either of the bullets I have already discussed, will absolutely, Bang-Flop a Moose at 300yds, even at the outside edges of that 24" kill area.

With any of the discussed bullets, sub 2 MOA will be typical and much smaller MOA's are very-very typical. So, even at a paltry 2 MOA, that's a 6" group at 300yds and you've got that 24" circle, on a Moose. The only other thing needed, assuming you personally are up for a 300yd shot, is know that you've got the Terminal-Ballistics, at those ranges...AND YOU DO, which is not something a 300mag could ever say for sure. As a 25yr PH, I couldn't tell you how many moose I've seen run away, after being hit by a 300mag. If you've got the loads and skill, that will never happen to you, while using a 450b..

..t

[Hoot]

...snip... We will take a look at what is available here in bullets, loads, and ballistics. Calling moose into range is not a problem, at least that is my humble opinion, so we can set it up any number of ways. I could envision a spotter/caller up high and shooter closer in. I'll talk to the hunter and see what he wants to try as well, it is his license. After the bear, he is a true believer in the 450, so he might be pretty excited about trying it on moose.

Great site, fun to interact with other's as excited about the pursuit as myself.

Take care, and thanks,

IMHO, Here's a good choice:

Have you ever hunted big game with a .30-06?
-If yes, continue-
Would you hunt Moose with a .30-06 pushing a 200gr bullet?
-If yes, continue-
Would you hunt Moose with a .30-06 pushing a 200gr bullet at the same velocity, but with TWICE THE KILLING FACTOR?
-If yes, continue-

Barnes 200gr XPB, /41 gr Lil Gun / Rem 7 1/2 Primer / Taper Crimp to .474 in the driving band groove @ 2.22 COL
Average Velocity: 2450fps / 5-shot group @ 100 yards: .884 / Best 4 of 5: .529 / Best 3 of 5: .350 inch

Shazaam!





Drop @ 150 yd zero:

Muzzle: -2.5 inch
50 yds: + .35
100 yds: + 1.35
150 yds: 0
200 yds: -4.35

Hoot

[Hoot]

If you prefer the 275 XPB going a little slower, it's groups well @ 100 yds also:



Hoot

[Caseknife]

Ursusjkb, that's a good looking bear, I was looking for one of those last weekend, but didn't locate one.

Hoot, I'm curious as to how you load the 275 xpb with more powder than the 200. Isn't it usually the other way around in the loading manuals? Or is this something peculiar with the 450. Are the crimp and col the same as the 200?

[Texas Sheepdawg]

Hoot, I'm curious as to how you load the 275 xpb with more powder than the 200. Isn't it usually the other way around in the loading manuals? Or is this something peculiar with the 450. Are the crimp and col the same as the 200?

That is an EXCELLENT QUESTION.
Guys, be sure that you do a whole lot of reading and studying here before you start rolling your own. Hoot has years of experience and has probably more experience than I do on reloading. Just so you guys know ahead of time, some of the loads that we tinker with surpass SAMMI pressure specs. I'm not saying that in the case of these particular copper bullets, Hoot was above SAMMI, but some of the experimenting we do, like my 230 Gr FMJs, there is a good chance we are closer to 48K than the SAMMI spec of 38.K Know your rifle intimately. Know what your early signs of pressure are going to look like. And always ask questions before you blow your rig or yourself up. We are not responsible. Now would be a good time for our King Julien of the forum to step up and address us lemurs on Safety. But do a search here on Dangerous Reloading Practices. Study the threads on pressure signs and SAMMI Specs. So I'm off the soap box now. As Tim says, Safety First.
-Just saying.

[kottke_35]

I can only micmac what TSD just said! It's posted thruout this forum, if you roll your own don't take somebodies”pet” load as gospel. You may not know what kind of modifications have been done to their (the posters) rifles. Not saying that the excellent members here would post dangerous loads but typos ”due” happen sometimes. Start low and work up, watching for pressure signs! Keep it safe guys, and gals if y'all are out there. We want to continue seeing posts from you. Not reading your obituary!

B.