A Very Unsatisfactory Elk Hunt

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A Very Unsatisfactory Elk Hunt

Postby Jim in Houston » Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:11 pm

A couple of weeks ago I arrived for an elk hunt in Colorado. My hunt was on a ranch under the Ranching for Wildlife program. We scouted the herd that evening and identified two good sized 5x6 bulls. The herd was bedding down in a field about 1,000 yards from the road. The field was bounded on the west by a steeply sloping hillside, which led to the herd’s daytime bedding ground, on the south by a tree-lined gully, on the north by a broad shallow depression, and on the east by a deep gulch with a stream at the bottom near the road.

My guide and I arrived about a mile from the herd just before first light, and we worked our way into the gully and took up a shooting position in the trees and bushes at the top to the south of the herd. We identified one of the bulls from the night before at about 200 yards, and the herd, including about 20 cows, was grazing their way diagonally away from us toward the slope. The closest cow noticed us, but the rest of the herd was unaware of our presence.
I was shooting my 20” barrel BM450 with factory Hornady 250 gr FTX rounds through a Leupold 3x9-40 VXR scope. I was sighted in for 200 yards and shooting over a Primos shooting tripod from a kneeling position.

The bull was broadside with his left side toward me. My first shot was low, but the bull continued grazing. A quick second shot hit in the shoulder area, and the bull spun around with his left foreleg held up against his side. My second shot was to his right side quartering away, and you could hear the impact and see the animal react. I tried a fourth shot, but the bull was moving into the gully to the north showing only his head, and it was probably a miss. As it disappeared, it staggered, then recovered before dropping out of sight.

We waited a half an hour, with the guide expecting the bull to be down in the gully. When we got there, the bull had moved on, so we followed the blood trail, which was light and did not show evidence of bleeding from the lungs. After about 300 yards into juniper thickets, we saw a bull bedded down. As we approached to get another shot, but before we could get a positive ID, the bull got up and moved off out of sight. We decided to give it a couple of hours, then proceeded from the bedding spot in the same direction the bull had been moving. We did not see any further blood, but a large clot had been left at the bedding site. Our path led a little over 150 yards to the fence on the northern boundary of the ranch. However - and this is where it gets disappointing - the landowner on the other side of the fence would not give permission to enter his land to look for the elk.

We did a thorough search of the area on our side of the fence, in case the elk had doubled back to the herd bedding area. On the next day, we actually found blood on the fence a little west of the route we followed the day before. But again were refused permission to enter the next ranch’s land. Contact with the local Department of Wildlife officer did not help, as the landowner was within his rights to refuse permission to enter. We continued to scout the herd in the valley, but there was no sign of a wounded bull rejoining the herd. Our best guess is that the coyotes and magpies eventually ended up with an elk meal.

My guide and I went over the scenario several times. Since the guide had been watching the bull with 15x binoculars, we were sure of the two rounds hitting the bull. Our best guess is that they were ultimately fatal shots, but another scenario is that the first shot hit the shoulder blade and did not penetrate to the vital organs and that the second quartering away shot was high into the muscle. The big game manager at the ranch was a little skeptical that the 450 round had sufficient power at 200 yards (1486 ft-lbs at 1636 fps per Hornady’s ballistics calculator) to take down the elk, but he had never seen the BM450 round before and had no experience with it.

I would welcome any comments, even speculation, about possible scenarios, especially from those with knowledge of the terminal performance of the 450 BM FTX or experience hunting elk. Needless to say, this was a very disappointing outcome from my first elk hunt.
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Re: A Very Unsatisfactory Elk Hunt

Postby texrider » Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:06 pm

Man that sucks the landowner wouldn't let you look. Sometimes I do think the hydrostatic shock has its advantages though. My son shot a hog with a 70g Speer in 5.56. Took 3 shots to get him quiet, but the first shot made him fall over right where he shot him and start squealing. Of course none of the went thru.
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Re: A Very Unsatisfactory Elk Hunt

Postby m113103 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:35 pm

Somewhere in this forum are pictures of 450 bm boollets shot into water. I tried to copy and paste but files too big. If I had the chance to hunt elk I would only use Barnes b00llets. I used Barnes x-boollet to kill a cull elk bull. Penned bull 22-250 with an x-boollet in the neck DRT (thru and thru). Next cull I used a 30.06 with a 165gr. Base of the spine shot going uphill DRT. Too cold to recover boolett (no exit hole) ended up in the gutpile. IMHO the 250gr are good for deer and hogs, but as hard as elk tag are to get I would use a premium boolet.
:)
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Re: A Very Unsatisfactory Elk Hunt

Postby Spike1 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:13 pm

I think the 450BM has the fire power to get it done, but questionable at 200 yards. When I went to NM to hunt elk hunt Some 10 years ago my buddies convinced me to buy the Weatherby mag 338/378. most of our hunting was long range shoots though. Long range only because my buds love their suds and loved to hunt and glass from there Rhinos. Sorry to here you couldnt recover your elk. Elk is mighty tasty and damn there BIG.
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Re: A Very Unsatisfactory Elk Hunt

Postby wildcatter » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:00 pm

Spike1 wrote:I think the 450BM has the fire power to get it done, but questionable at 200 yards. When I went to NM to hunt elk hunt Some 10 years ago my buddies convinced me to buy the Weatherby mag 338/378. most of our hunting was long range shoots though. Long range only because my buds love their suds and loved to hunt and glass from there Rhinos. Sorry to here you couldnt recover your elk. Elk is mighty tasty and damn there BIG.


True-True and from Anecdotal Testimonies and from my own, the factory fodder still does a thru and thru on Elk or Moose at 300yds+! Never look at Ft-Lbs energy to consider TKO effects, I've written much about it, look it up.

Even though Bang-Flop Rues the day, using the 450b, we must consider, that in some cases this isn't going to happen. In-other-words, as the saying goes.."Ya gotta hit'em to get'em"! In Jimbo's specific case, if you don't manage an anchoring shot,.."Day ain't ah gonna Anchor".., in so many words! Sometimes bad luck rears it's ugly head? 200yds is just a walk in the park for the 450b vs Elk..

..t
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Re: A Very Unsatisfactory Elk Hunt

Postby Jim in Houston » Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:06 am

m113103 wrote:Somewhere in this forum are pictures of 450 bm boollets shot into water. I tried to copy and paste but files too big. If I had the chance to hunt elk I would only use Barnes b00llets. I used Barnes x-boollet to kill a cull elk bull. Penned bull 22-250 with an x-boollet in the neck DRT (thru and thru). Next cull I used a 30.06 with a 165gr. Base of the spine shot going uphill DRT. Too cold to recover boolett (no exit hole) ended up in the gutpile. IMHO the 250gr are good for deer and hogs, but as hard as elk tag are to get I would use a premium boolet.
:)


Good advice. Will try some reloads with Barnes bullets or other premium projectiles, if I use my 450 on an elk again.

BTW after my elk hunt, I bought a Savage 111 in .30-06. It comes with a Nikon Prostaff 3x9-40 with BDC reticle and cost $500. I got a $50 outfitter discount from my guide, and Savage is offering a $75 rebate on the Savage (which is the Trophy Hunter XP model), so total cost will be $375 when the rebate rolls in. Took it to the range in Grand Junction. It comes boresighted out of the box, but I reset the turrets to center and was sighted in at 50 yards in 10 rounds, shot a 1 MOA group at 100, and hit at 200, 300 and 400 using the BDC reticle holdovers. Great gun and scope for the money. Now I just invested in 30-06 dies and case prepping tools. Hornady is offering its lock-n-load promotion again, so I will get 200 free bullets from them. Good to go!
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Re: A Very Unsatisfactory Elk Hunt

Postby Hoot » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:53 am

Here's the Link to the summary article with links to the various XPB testing I did. One link is to the water shots. I used reduced loads with a filler to get reduced velocities to simulate different yardages.

Looking out the window at our new snow cover. That's the first and will be here until the last one of the season. Never gets warm enough for any of them to melt, so they pile up. It takes a lot of resolve to go to the range when it's snowed in. I'm a cold weather wuss and pretty much at the mercy of indoor projects for the duration of our long winter. Too bad as I have retest loads of the COP bullets ready to go. Just ran out of time this year.

Enjoy the articles...

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Re: A Very Unsatisfactory Elk Hunt

Postby Siringo » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:15 pm

Using Hornady's H.I.T.S. calculator and 450B factory ammo, at 200 yards the 250 gr. FXT is at the lower end of the spectrum for Medium Game (up to 300 pounds). Elk is considered Large game.

Set aside the 450 Bushmaster round/AR15 mystique and think of the 250 fxt bullet shot out of an In-Line muzzle loader. Essentially, the velocities are the same. Once the bullet is launched and in the air, it doesn't matter what it was shot out of. Peruse the webpages of folks shooting Deer or Elk with muzzle loaders and you'll see 250's used for deer and 300's used for Elk.
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Re: A Very Unsatisfactory Elk Hunt

Postby kottke_35 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:21 pm

Siringo wrote:Using Hornady's H.I.T.S. calculator and 450B factory ammo, at 200 yards the 250 gr. FXT is at the lower end of the spectrum for Medium Game (up to 300 pounds). Elk is considered Large game.

Set aside the 450 Bushmaster round/AR15 mystique and think of the 250 fxt bullet shot out of an In-Line muzzle loader. Essentially, the velocities are the same. Once the bullet is launched and in the air, it doesn't matter what it was shot out of. Peruse the webpages of folks shooting Deer or Elk with muzzle loaders and you'll see 250's used for deer and 300's used for Elk.



^^^ this^^^

I have been thinking about this vary same thing in regards to the muzzle loader aspect. Essentially we have a semi automatic rifle with the power of a magnum muzzle loader. Obviously capable of taking any game animal in North America, limited by range and bullet construction.

I have not had the opportunity to take an elk with thumper but when I carry it, I load it with the 275 xpb. I sure do like this rifle and I wouldn't discredit it's ability to take and harvest game. Personally I don't take the bushmaster if the ranges are going to exceed 150-200 yards max for elk. I have other tools much better suited for those applications.

Jim,

Very sorry to hear about your misfortune. Don't give up on thumper, or elk hunting.

B.
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Re: A Very Unsatisfactory Elk Hunt

Postby Jim in Houston » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:58 pm

Thanks to everyone who commented on this post.

Here's the lesson I take away before my next elk hunt with my BM450: either use a better bullet and get closer or hunt deer, not elk. :|

Valuable lessons for sure.
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