Range Day 031216 Calibration Loads

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Re: Range Day 031216 Calibration Loads

Postby Hoot » Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:08 pm

Okay, sorry for the delay.

The first range day of the season never goes smoothly. Every year, I vow to make a checklist for all the crap I have to haul along, which is spread out all over the house, but I haven't made it yet. Don't want to face the fact that my memory isn't as good as it used to be. When I'm trying to get out of the house at a specific time, it's like trying to run in knee deep mud. Can't go fast enough to suit me and the wife is inhaling a long wind to start in on all the honey-do's I have to get done "Sooner than Later!" Needless to say, I forgot a few things, but I got out on time. :lol:

This being a new caliber and the apparent choices of powder being so vast, I wanted to calibrate QuickLoad with as many real world results as possible on this first outing. Not wanting to entreat too many variables, I kept everything except the powder, the same. For my initial powder choices, I did some advance measuring to see how much I could fit in a case for a given bullet and COL, to see whether they would deliver performance as predicted by QuickLoad.

Here's a table of how much powder I could fit into the case. Where there are two measurement divided with a / the second charge was all that QL would recommend without exceeding the spec chamber pressure. Boy that was a bum steer, but more on that later.

Image

Since my intended bullet for this outing was the Hornady 125gr SST, the charges in purple were near what I loaded to. Other than with AR-Comp, which QL predicted never reaches maximum pressure, but which historically has delivered exceptional consistency and accuracy in other calibers, I dropped a grain or two to be in the middle of the QL predicted safe pressure range. I knew I could always work up from there. Talk about foreshadowing... :roll:

Here's a table of the achieved velocities for the given charges.

Image

As you can see, I didn't come close to achieving any of those predicted velocities, so there is plenty of opportunity to bump and run, but to be honest, I would've been a lot happier to have been in the vicinity as there isn't tons of capacity left to gain the increases I'd like to see. Many of those first loads struggled to even achieve the same velocity as the 150gr PSP factory loads. Oh well, that leaves me a challenge for the next outing, though I also have some catching up to do with 450b tests I ran out of time to complete last year before the thermometer plummeted to the "no wimps welcome" level.

So what about accuracy. It appears that the 125gr SST needs more velocity to stabilize, or my barrel likes a different bullet setback so the jury is still out on that. More importantly, I need to remember my benchrest and rear bag, not to mention learn how to shoot a lightweight AR again, having not shot since last fall. ARs have never been inherently easy for me to put away and pull out 6 months later with the same degree of mastery. Not at all like a bolt action in that regard.

Here's how they flew:

Image

You may no doubt have noticed the mention of an FCD. Not to be confused with the implementation of an FCD for the 450b. This is the actual implementation that Lee intends them to be used. Several years ago, I owned a 300 OSSM upper. I modified a 300 WSM FCD to fit it replacing the taper crimp at the case mouth. I modified it again to fit the 30 RAR since I sold the 300 OSSM a while back and the buyer didn't want it. Surprisingly, it didn't do anything for velocity or accuracy, but the sample was small.

WRT accuracy. I believe a lot of the lack of tightness in the groups was due as much to my personal rustiness and having to shoot off of chunks of 6x6 timbers covered with old carpet and a rear sandbag, as opposed to a nice BR front rest and matching rear bag which I forgot. Also, I did not clean the bore the entire time, which is a little long for doing load testing IMHO. So, there's room for improvement on all fronts and a commitment to chasing them. First and foremost, I have to tune QL to compensate for my real world results.

More to follow.

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Re: Range Day 031216 Calibration Loads

Postby Hoot » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:40 pm

Quick followup.

For advanced reloaders: The ,400 datum point on the shoulder of the unsized, fired cases averaged 1.16 inches. Again, unsized, the fired cases hold 45.0gr H2O. My chamber will take cases with the shoulder pushed back to 1.157, which is a lot longer than unfired factory loads. Anyway, with the shoulder back at 1.157 and the case fully resized, the capacity for H2O drops from 45.0 to 44.3gr. That is the capacity I use in QuickLoad when predicting load pressure. In case you missed this mentioned in the original thread, the pulled down factory cases I measured hold on average, 43.7gr H2O.

So, off to bed. "Another day's useless energy spent". (Name that tune) ;) Dawg, you're not allowed to compete.

Hoot

EDIT: Shoot! I just realized tht QL uses overflow H2O specs, not the level H2O specs I measured. To be amended tomorrow...
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Re: Range Day 031216 Calibration Loads

Postby commander faschisto » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:47 pm

Hoot-mon...great work, as usual. We consider your energy well spent! I'm paying close attention to this thread since I finally have a 30RAR on the way...I especially want to work on at least duplicating, or bettering, the now-discontinued Hog Hammer 125gr. Barnes TSX load that Remmy, yet again, has abandoned. If you take a notion to work something like that into your extensive free time range program, lemme know...a suitable supply of said boolits can be easily arranged.
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Re: Range Day 031216 Calibration Loads

Postby kklatt450 » Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:51 pm

Hoot have you tried aa2200 I've got a good load going with 37.2 grs Barnes 130gr ttsx at 2.27. Created: 06/27/15 11:25 AM
Description: 30rar 2200 37.2 130 ttsx
Notes 1: 2.27 oal
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono(FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight(gr): 130.00
Temp: 81 °F
BP: 30.07 inHg
# FPS FT-LBS PF
3 2819 2294.29 366.47
2 2804 2269.94 364.52
1 2812 2282.91 365.56
Average: 2811.7 FPS
SD: 7.5 FPS
Min: 2804 FPS
Max: 2819 FPS
Spread: 15 FPS
Shot/sec: 0.1
True MV: 2814 FPS
Group Size (in): 0.00
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Re: Range Day 031216 Calibration Loads

Postby Hoot » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:38 pm

kklatt450 wrote:Hoot have you tried aa2200 I've got a good load going with 37.2 grs Barnes 130gr ttsx at 2.27. Created: 06/27/15 11:25 AM
Description: 30rar 2200 37.2 130 ttsx
Notes 1: 2.27 oal
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono(FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight(gr): 130.00
Temp: 81 °F
BP: 30.07 inHg
# FPS FT-LBS PF
3 2819 2294.29 366.47
2 2804 2269.94 364.52
1 2812 2282.91 365.56
Average: 2811.7 FPS
SD: 7.5 FPS
Min: 2804 FPS
Max: 2819 FPS
Spread: 15 FPS
Shot/sec: 0.1
True MV: 2814 FPS
Group Size (in): 0.00


Thanks for the suggestion. I've seen AA2200 recommended elsewhere, but can't find any local at the moment. Interestingly if you do the math, my loads are averaging about 90% of QL predicted. True to form, QL says your load is way over pressure, but then it has been over-predicting everything I've tried, that does not phase me. Another powder that models hot, but within the 90% compensation factor is Ramshot X-termnator. It too has been elusive locally. Got some feelers out. Will do the same for AA2200.

Got my last trip's brass processes and primed for another go, but will probably prune the pick list down to H322 and H335 since I did not load them to max yet. I'll try to snag some of the two powders mentioned here that I don't have yet. Nothing like a challenge caliber to suck up brain power, just speculating on where to go with it... :roll: Winter has returned =, so it'll be a while before we're back to a comfortable day, which for me means at a minimum, not having to bundle up and wear gloves.

Thanks again,

Hoot

BTW, if I drop down to 110gr bullet, a few other powders that I have on the slow side for the 450b, may wind up getting an at bat. Still have high hopes for the 125 SST.

'Nite all.

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Re: Range Day 031216 Calibration Loads

Postby Mort » Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:43 am

For what it's worth, in my experience with AA2200, H322 & H335 with regards to temperature sensitivity in 6.8SPC and .556. For every ten degree drop in temp. you will lose 9-11 FPS with both AA2200 and H335 powders. H322 is much more temp. stable in both cartridges listed above. In the 6.8 SPC I have zero FPS loss as temps. decrease from 90 degrees F to 10 degrees F. In the .556 I saw about a 12 FPS loss over the same temp. range. To my dismay AA2200 is a little faster and more accurate than H322 in the 6.8 and H335 shoots circles around both others in .556. Just my experience.

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Re: Range Day 031216 Calibration Loads

Postby kklatt450 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:05 am

My aa2200 load is at the max according to the aa load chart for the 30rar but it does shoot very well . And Hoot you are right the primer pockets are not real tight even at the first reload I'm using Remington 7 1/2 I haven't tried cci 450 but they are much tighter . I haven't used 125sst yet but the 150sst shoot very well with 37.2 grs of benchmark . I have got a lot of 110gr varmageddon to mess with.
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Re: Range Day 031216 Calibration Loads

Postby Hoot » Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:30 am

kklatt450 wrote:My aa2200 load is at the max according to the aa load chart for the 30rar but it does shoot very well . And Hoot you are right the primer pockets are not real tight even at the first reload I'm using Remington 7 1/2 I haven't tried cci 450 but they are much tighter . I haven't used 125sst yet but the 150sst shoot very well with 37.2 grs of benchmark . I have got a lot of 110gr varmageddon to mess with.


Do you jump those 150 SST's or load them so they're into the lands? My plan it to load at least one (under performing) identical load from this past outing, probably the H335, but maybe both it and H322 since the latter is a Hodgdon Extreme powder, a few thousandths longer so they engage the leade more firmly, to see if that pumps the pressure up a little. I already measured the COL of different bullets to see where they engage the leade and IIRC the 125 SST did so around 2.27.

It snowed last night and I just got back home from going to where my daughter had an accident. Everyone is OK but the Elantra took a good beating as in front and side airbags deployed, Flat Bed Tow. Anyway, with weather like this, I'm laying low. I'm patient and better weather is just around the corner.

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Re: Range Day 031216 Calibration Loads

Postby kklatt450 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:46 am

I got the 150sst loaded to mag length at 2.27 my chamber is 2.34 with the 150sst . With that load I have several 5 shot strings from 2623 to 2643 and groups very well
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Re: Range Day 031216 Calibration Loads

Postby Hoot » Sat Mar 19, 2016 5:43 pm

kklatt450 wrote:I got the 150sst loaded to mag length at 2.27 my chamber is 2.34 with the 150sst . With that load I have several 5 shot strings from 2623 to 2643 and groups very well


This is why we discuss our projects. The 125 SST has the same front profile at the 150. The 150 is just longer behind that profile. Much like the .451 200 vs 275gr Barnes XPB.
Anyway, It did not make sense that your experience with the 150 SST produced a longer distance to lands than my experience with the 125. So, I revisited the measurement I took late at night and discovered that the cannelure impression had raised the edge on either side of it so that it was catching on my oal case length gauge, case mouth. I polished out the inside of the neck for slightly less tension on the bullet and remeasured. Sure enough, it was also 2.34. Loaded to 2.25, the 125 or 150 SST would have almost a .10 inch jump to the lands. Some loads will like that and some wont for a given rifle. That's what experimentation is for.

As far as what an unmodified magazine will allow. My magazine will allow a COL of 2.31, but that was measured with the cartridge just down inside the top of the front wall. If the tolerance on the magazine is such that it drifts a little shorter as you go down, then that length would not be correct. Now the Sierra 125 SP Pro Hunter has a faster rise (tangent ogive) from the tip to where the bullet reaches full caliber diameter, often mistakenly referred to as the ogive. Its actually a point along the ogive, but its easier to simply say ogive, so in the spirit of guy rules, ogive wins. Anyway, the 125 PH stops firmly at 2.23 COL in my chamber. Loading that to zero jump is no big deal and rest assured, it will be tried. Loading "into the lands" is not for every bullet, barrel, or powder. It relies heavily upon having a gun whose bore has not been neglected. With a few exceptions, most precision BR shooters load into the lands. Their score depends upon it. I doubt a deer will know the difference and for all it's neatness, this is not a precision caliber, nor a precision platform. Still it's fun to tinker... ;)

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