Range Day 031216 Calibration Loads

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Re: Range Day 031216 Calibration Loads

Postby kklatt450 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:15 pm

Well Hoot it's great chatting with you on what I think is a great round hell most people even friends I have that's been around shooting their whole life never heard of let alone reload for it . I've been playing with the 277 wolverine for awhile now thinks it's time to go back to the 30rar and start on the 450 b/m
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Re: Range Day 031216 Calibration Loads

Postby Hoot » Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:25 pm

kklatt450 wrote:Well Hoot it's great chatting with you on what I think is a great round hell most people even friends I have that's been around shooting their whole life never heard of let alone reload for it . I've been playing with the 277 wolverine for awhile now thinks it's time to go back to the 30rar and start on the 450 b/m


From what I've read over on the Wildcat forum about the 277 Wolverine, it appears to be close to the best adaptation of what we have to work with, in terms of obtaining the most effective caliber in an AR platform, both in ballistic performance and CXP2 game killing effectiveness. I admit, I'm fond of my .264 Gremlin, but .277 is just "more to love". the gang over there are true free-form artists.

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Re: Range Day 031216 Calibration Loads

Postby kklatt450 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:36 pm

The 277 is a great shooting round good speed great nock down power I've shot my largest hog with it scaled out at 375#
Last edited by kklatt450 on Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Range Day 031216 Calibration Loads

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:37 pm

Hoot wrote:Quick followup.


So, off to bed. "Another day's useless energy spent". (Name that tune) ;) Dawg, you're not allowed to compete.

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EDIT: Shoot! I just realized tht QL uses overflow H2O specs, not the level H2O specs I measured. To be amended tomorrow...

RATS......
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Re: Range Day 031216 Calibration Loads

Postby Hoot » Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:06 pm

Hoot wrote:...snip...

EDIT: Shoot! I just realized tht QL uses overflow H2O specs, not the level H2O specs I measured. To be amended tomorrow...


I never got back to this. I suspect the QuickLoad author did not mean fill it until the hydrostatic pressure overcomes the surface tension and breaks out. Too many influences on that outcome, not worth getting into. I'll stick with level, minimum meniscus. That's what is generally accepted as the standard elsewhere. Chalk it up to language differences.

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Re: Range Day 031216 Calibration Loads

Postby Hoot » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:10 pm

In the Range Report, I mentioned converting a 300 OSSM FCD, which was made from a 300 WSM FCD, to fit the length of the 30RAR. I remembered that I had never showed what that resulting crimp looked like.

Image

Not that it had an impact upon velocity that stood out. Made it for the 300 OSSM and wound up never using it since there was adequate and relatively consistent neck tension in that caliber with no additional crimping. Looks like the 30RAR is much the same.

Sorry for the lack of color compensation.

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Re: Range Day 031216 Calibration Loads

Postby commander faschisto » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:50 pm

On the plus side, that is one nice-looking crimp!
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Re: Range Day 031216 Calibration Loads

Postby Hoot » Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:22 am

commander faschisto wrote:On the plus side, that is one nice-looking crimp!


Oh Man, I think I need a vacation or something.

Its a nice looking crimp because it came from the factory that way!

I looked at that post this morning with the clarity of a good night's sleep and immediately realized it was the factory crimp the 150gr Core Lokt PSP and 125gr FMJ already come with.
I am faced with the fact that I'm not always on my game on work nights after 8 PM. Tired but unable to sleep yet. I spend the majority of the work week in sleep debt. I get up at 04:30 because I have to, certainly not because I choose to. A loud alarm clock makes certain that I get up, but I can not force myself to sleep at 8:30 PM to make up for it. I can't force myself to sleep at 9:30 either despite trying. Left to it's own internal rhythm, I can effortlessly sleep from 11 PM to 7 AM. Easy as rolling off a log, but not acceptable with my job requirements.
I did crimp some of my 125 SST with Hodgdon Benchmark loads, using the FCD but that bullet is not a 125 SST. Not sure if I photographed my reproduced FCD crimps, but if its any consolation, I did set it up to reproduce the crimp in the picture.

The interesting takeaway is that Remington saw worth in doing that to their loads. I don't see much factory ammo, but I don't recall seeing any normally come with a crimp like that. Doesn't mean it does not happen, just not something I normally see. I realize the die is called a Factory Crimp for some reason. ;)

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Re: Range Day 031216 Calibration Loads

Postby commander faschisto » Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:24 pm

Hoot-mon...now I almost feel bad for pointing out the neatness of that crimp in the pic! :?

I think you should just put on your parka, grab a handy six of "beverage" and the chaise-lounge, and go out in the back yard and admire the clouds today... :)

On a topic-relevant note, Remy puts the same crimp on their 125gr Accu-Tip load, just fyi.
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Shoot Your Ammo First

Postby Hoot » Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:39 pm

The sun's still up and I had a good night's sleep and a short nap earlier. ;)

If unlike me, you have patience, do not pull down new ammo to make reloading fodder. Yes, you will incur 1 firing wear and tear, but shooting those factory loads is worth it for the gain in powder capacity and having your cases fire formed to your rifle's chamber. You will profit from measuring just how long a particular bullet can be seated and still fit in your magazine also. In the following example, I am loading Hornady 125 SST into sized 1-fired cases with the shoulder pushed back to 1.57 measured at the datum point.

Here's the skinny:

Image

From my initial trip out to the range a few weeks ago when the weather was actually nice for one day, it was obvious that none of the powders I was using, came close to maxing out the safe pressure and worse, coming anywhere close to what QuickLoad predicted for resulting velocity. OK, so live and learn.

During that initial calibration run, I was able to calculate a coefficient to apply to QuikLoad's Ba characteristic for each powder I used, to make predicted results agree with the real results I achieved. That having been done, None of the maximum charges listed above, fall into a dangerous range. Most do not fall into a dangerous range even using the original default QuickLoad Ba values which were overly optimistic.

The next time we get similar weather to the last outing, I will return to the range with some fresh loads that are the longer COL as well as closer to maximum case fill. Not right up to the limit since other factors come into play when using fire formed brass, such as elasticity. If this helps, think about cases that are smaller than the chamber during those first few milliseconds in time after the primer blows. The brass stretches so that the outside conforms with the limit of the chamber walls. That's what fire forming does, as they do not contract back down all the way after the pressure drops. While the case is stretched, the volume inside it is more than prior to ignition, so the powder fill ratio is lower and that is a contributor to pressure. Once the cases are formed, there is less stretch during the early stage of ignition and the lessening of pressure does not occur to the same extent. That equals a higher pressure spike. So, as most of us try to emphasize starting lower with a new recipe, which this in essence is, Safety is still a factor.

Generally speaking, for commonly available powders that burn in the range that this caliber can benefit from, without being too fast. The case capacity seems to be the limiting factor where velocity is concerned and bullets are light. Some of these same powders have plenty of umph when the bullet weight goes up. As was pointed out, when you get up to the 150gr bullets, you are forced to use less powder in order to seat them so that they fit in the magazine. Ditto on all copper bullets that run longer in length for the same weight as cup and lead core bullets. That has a self-limiting effect.

More on this after my next Range Day.

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