New to AR's or 450 Bushmaster ? Learn from my mistakes

Talk about the AR15 style rifles chambered in 450 Bushmaster.

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New to AR's or 450 Bushmaster ? Learn from my mistakes

Postby RedRambler » Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:27 pm

I made some mistakes in the course of converting my AR from 5.56 to 450B, I should have known better in some respects and others were just plain learning. Sharing this nighmare to help others learn from my mistakes.

With Ohio's deer gun season quickly approaching I saw one of those Bear Creek 450B uppers at a good price ($200). I have a Delton Sport II which as been little more than a range toy and knowing my father had an old scope laying around, thought it might be a good way to get into a good deer rifle for a decent price.

Afterall plenty of people both on this site & others have spoke highly of the Bear Creek Uppers.

Well its been more expensive and caused me a lot more stress than anticipated. As a former Army Infantryman who grew up on a farm hunting, I THOUGHT I knew what I was doing and I did NOT.

The upper is just ONE of the components you should budget for. In addition to the upper you should factor in the following things. Magazines: You'll want at least two. The five round Bushmater brands are $30 a piece. Buffer: An H3 will go for $30-$40 off the shelf. SCOPE & Rings: This is what bit me and I'll elaborate on this but budget $100-$150.

This upper had no front sight post, just a rail. The scope I had was just some random thing Pops had bought several years ago out of a bargin bin, there was no manual or anything for it. I had to try three different sets at $20 a piece before getting it properly mounted, which having no vice or leveler was a PAIN.

After going through all of this, took it out to the range and after 12 rounds, it bashed me in the face and the crosshairs broke loose. My face will heal but there's no fixing that scope. I took the peep sight from my 5.56 upper mounted it on but because I have to back the stock to its furtherest setting to shoot 450B, I couldnt really set it to where I felt it would possibly work.

So I hauled the gun to a shop my friends recommended to see what could be done. He found a Bushnel brand scope for $95 that he promises will hold up with 450B. With another set of rings along with mounting and bore sighting, I'm into this for a total of $125.

Still not very confident this Delton lower is going to hold up but monetarily I'm already into this deal $200 too deep given my finances already. At this point I'm hoping it will last long enough to get the gun dialed in and a deer in the pot. I'll replace by summer next year.

Lessons Learned: Midlevel quality scopes retail for $100 give or take. Cheap scopes are too expensive to use on big bore guns. If you don't buy enough guns to justify the expensive of a gun vice, scope leveler, and bore sight kit, buy your scope from a reputible dealer at an actual "brick & motor" store. Most will have the equipment and knowledge to do this for you and get the eye relief right.

For the money I have into this gun, I could have bought a Ruger bolt gun or a CVA in 450B and probably saved myself a lot of stress & heartburn.

I wouldn't be taking a backup shotgun with me to the range next week incase this lower fails when I try to dial this gun in either. I'll update you on how this story ends.
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Re: New to AR's or 450 Bushmaster ? Learn from my mistakes

Postby Al in Mi » Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:26 am

That delton lower shouldn't be a issue, its aluminum not plastic correct??

Sounds like you went with standard rings vs a one piece picatinny mount? The one piece mounts will set the scope forward so the eye piece is closer to the charging handle. Have a couple of buds using the $25 Burris PEPR clones off ebay without any issues.

Anyway, looking forward to your range report.
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Re: New to AR's or 450 Bushmaster ? Learn from my mistakes

Postby RedRambler » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:36 pm

Al in Mi wrote:That delton lower shouldn't be a issue, its aluminum not plastic correct??

Sounds like you went with standard rings vs a one piece picatinny mount? The one piece mounts will set the scope forward so the eye piece is closer to the charging handle. Have a couple of buds using the $25 Burris PEPR clones off ebay without any issues.

Anyway, looking forward to your range report.


Thanks !

Yeah I went with the regular scope rings in other words 2 individual rings. The first set was too small, I think they were like 30 mm or something like that, the diameter was too small to fit around the body of the scope. So I went back and got one inch rings which fit body of the scope but were too low & pinned the optic on top of the rail such that you couldn't adjust the focus or parallax, and being that I use a thumb over bore hold, my thumb was blocking it lol. The third & correct set elevated the scope just enough above the rail that my thumb was not in the way of my line of sight.

I'm not saying that I made good decisions here lol. Frankly I got excited, rushed in, didn't fully think things through as well as I should have, and I've had to pay some stupid tax as a result.
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Re: New to AR's or 450 Bushmaster ? Learn from my mistakes

Postby LeaderOfThePack » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:37 am

Out of topic, but 30mm is 1 3/16". Never seen any rings under inch in here. Maybe those were meant for air gun or something..
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Re: New to AR's or 450 Bushmaster ? Learn from my mistakes

Postby Al in Mi » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:40 am

Some of those weaver type rings won't set flat on the rail either.
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Re: New to AR's or 450 Bushmaster ? Learn from my mistakes

Postby Jim in Houston » Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:22 am

It doesn't sound like there was an issue with the AR here, either upper or lower. You could have tried standard 5.56 magazines with the stock followers, rather than special 450 BM OEM mags and followers. Many have used them successfully, including me, although when the became available, I did replace the follower.

As to scope, you probably should have gone for a new, medium priced scope ($150 - 200 range). I have used 2 regular rings tall enough to keep the scope off the barrel rail, but eye relief is key. You need to have the eye piece of the scope no further back than the charging handle. Ask me how I know. The one or two piece offset rings will get you there.

Anyway, thanks for your report. It will be helpful to others just getting into the 450.
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Re: New to AR's or 450 Bushmaster ? Learn from my mistakes

Postby plant_one » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:40 am

i'm glad to hear that your wallet and pride was damaged more than your face was.


i'll agree with jim regarding the choice of optics these days.


had you put that scope on *ANY* 450 bushmater - or likely any other high power rifle for that matter - it would have failed just as spectacularly. in fact - i suspect had you put it on a ruger american with the same rings it would have failed even sooner given that the recoil softening effects of the buffer/spring/bolt in the AR acutally tame the recoil effects generated by newtons 3rd law.

Formally stated, Newton's third law is: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. The statement means that in every interaction, there is a pair of forces acting on the two interacting objects.




your lesson should be - use the cheapest parts you can find when it comes to firearm optics and expect the worst result possible. Its not a 450 bushmaster problem - its a shitty manufacturing/quality control problem.


as you noted - any optic under $100 is likely to be problematic, and personally i wont touch an optic that MSRP's under $200 these days - my baseline is a vortex diamondback/vx1/nikon class scope. likewise with rings... i'm tired of lapping el-cleapo's and my baseline for an ar upper is now the Nikon P-series rings at about $50.


it sucks, but with the "quality" of chinesium on the market these days you need to pay a bit of a premium for anything decent that will last anymore.
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Re: New to AR's or 450 Bushmaster ? Learn from my mistakes

Postby RedRambler » Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:27 pm

I will elaborate in greater detail later this week. However I wanted to drop you a quick line to say that the Bushnell held together and I have the gun was zeroed. I sighted in at a hundred yards then brought it back to 50 and it was hitting only 4 inches high.

I'm happy because that means between 50 yards and 150 yards I should be able aim at the center of the shoulder on a deer and make a successful shot, these are the most realistic distances I expect to shoot. At 200 yards I should be able to aim at the top of the shoulder and make a successful shot, I'm glad I have that ability because you never know. Maybe I only see one and it's far away or it's a nice buck.

Compare to my father's CVA Scout and the same caliber I find this AR to be particularly brutal as far as recoil, but I can deal with it. As my finances allow hopefully I'll be able to make some improvements to this all rifle to make it more comfortable to shoot.

I will let you know how it performs after deer season here in Ohio which starts on Monday.

Until then I wish all of you a most pleasant Thanksgiving !!!!!
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Re: New to AR's or 450 Bushmaster ? Learn from my mistakes

Postby ScottyPotty » Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:45 pm

Delton lower is good to go.
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Re: New to AR's or 450 Bushmaster ? Learn from my mistakes

Postby Buckeye45 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:35 am

Last year was the first I have ever hunted that much with an AR style rifle. I hunted 5 1/2 out of the first 6 days all using my newly built 450. With that much woods time on my rifle I found several little things that I had wanted to change. The best part is it's all stuff you can do yourself and as time and finances allow. If you have your gun ready then sit back and watch the big game today, GO BUCKEYE, and get ready for Monday. While it can be frustrating it's all part of the fun we deer hunters go thru. Good luck
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