The ultimate letdown

[Hoot]

I don't live in SC, but in MN, AR-15s are classified as an "assault weapon" not assault rifle and their sale falls under the same restrictions as a handgun. Unlike non-assault weapon long guns, which you only have to be 18 to buy, you must be 21 to purchase a handgun in MN and either possess a valid Permit to Carry, or go through a 5-day waiting period to purchase. You get a card to carry after the check which is good for a year, during which, you can purchase as many handguns or assault weapons as you like. Due to the federal instant background check that is required for any firearm purchase, MN is considering eliminating the 5-day waiting period, but only to save money in these difficult financial times. We are still not allowed to possess or use suppressors or class-3 weapons other than ones which qualify as C&R (go figure). While that infuriates me, our family budget is eternally grateful.

Every state has their quirks. Look at shotgun zones for deer hunting. Some make no sense whatsoever. You can hunt with many centerfire caliber pistols in a shotgun only zone, like a .30-06 Contender, but don't dare get caught with that caliber in a rifle, in a shotgun only zone. There's talk of that one coming up for legislative consideration also.

The wife's watching CNN as I type this. They just reported that firearms were a big mover this Christmas. The FBI reported over a million and a half background checks in the past week because of it.

Everyone enjoy your presents. Our biggest present in MN is the unseasonably warm and snow-free weather we're experiencing. I actually got to go and test fire my 260 Remington barrel for my LAR-8 on Christmas eve. Now that a few of us debunked the allegation by RRA that you can only use their barrels on their LAR-8, my next caliber may well be a .338 Federal. Turns out DPMS LR-308 barrels fit like a glove. I picked one up for $210.00. However, getting 260 ammo to cycle reliably from a FAL magazine took a bit of tweaking.

Hoot

[BD1]

I ran into this before when ordering a group buy lower while I was in NY state for work and wanted to put together my >450B. NY state has no problem with an out of state resident purchasing a long gun. I bought a Mossberg 500 while I was there with no problem. The issue is that a stripped lower is not a "long gun", it's transferred to the dealer as an "either", meaning that it could be a handgun or a long gun once assembled, so handgun rules apply until it's transferred with a long barrel attached.

In my case, as I'd already paid when I ordered the lower, I had to sell that lower to the dealer and then buy a complete used rifle from the dealer and sell the upper back to the dealer, in order to wind up with a lower I could legally own in NY state. Makes no sense, but it's not the dealer, or even the state, that decided this. It's ATF and the issue comes up when the dealer calls in the yellow form which can't be completed to an out of state buyer as an "either". The only way they could sell it to you as an out of stater would be to include the parts needed to transfer it as a long gun. I just was in VA for the holiday, and now I'm bummed that I came back down 95, rather than 77 to Columbia.
BD

[MOUNTIN DU]

that stinks! i'm not knockin' where some of us live but the more i read on most of the huntin', fishin' & shootin' websites i belong to the more i appreciate livin' in louisiana

SB 39, sponsored by state Senators Eric LaFleur (D-28) and Neil Riser (R-32), would clarify that Louisianans may purchase a long gun in any state, and allow a citizen of any other state to purchase a long gun in Louisiana, so long as both states allow such purchases. *(note)

HB 489, introduced by state Representative Alan Seabaugh (R-5), would remove the requirement that an individual must wait six months to acquire “resident” status to apply for a concealed handgun permit. *(note)

HB 169, introduced by state Representative Cameron Henry (R-82), will allow Louisianans to use firearms fitted with lawfully-possessed sound suppressors while hunting nongame nuisance quadrupeds, including feral hogs, coyotes, armadillos, nutria and beaver. Sound suppressors reduce noise complaints, recoil, and hearing loss while increasing accuracy. *(note)

HB 294, introduced by state Representative Major Thibaut (D-18), will remove the requirement to acquire a special permit to trap feral hogs and remove the limitation on the types of firearms used for hunting nongame nuisance quadrupeds including feral hogs, coyotes, armadillos, nutria, and beaver. *(note)

*(note) reproduced from http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/State ... LA#Archive

[bushmeister]

:SB 39, sponsored by state Senators Eric LaFleur (D-28) and Neil Riser (R-32), would clarify that Louisianans may purchase a long gun in any state, and allow a citizen of any other state to purchase a long gun in Louisiana, so long as both states allow such purchases. *(note)

I think the issue is a stripped lower is not "technically" a long gun. They were perfectly happy to sell me a complete lower with butt stock, trigger, etc.... but not a stripped lower unless I was in state. The bad deal was that I had a SC handgun permit, but was required by law to surrender it when I moved out of state.

[9x19MdM]

:SB 39, sponsored by state Senators Eric LaFleur (D-28) and Neil Riser (R-32), would clarify that Louisianans may purchase a long gun in any state, and allow a citizen of any other state to purchase a long gun in Louisiana, so long as both states allow such purchases. *(note)

I think the issue is a stripped lower is not "technically" a long gun. They were perfectly happy to sell me a complete lower with butt stock, trigger, etc.... but not a stripped lower unless I was in state. The bad deal was that I had a SC handgun permit, but was required by law to surrender it when I moved out of state.

Correct! It's a receiver.
Page 2
Section B
Question 18

Edited:

Here's the link to the ATF form...
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

[Jim in Houston]

The BATF rules / regulations on long vs short guns have or are about to change, so that a receiver, which could be sold as either a "pistol" or a "rifle" can now be sold as either or designated as one or the other depending on its intended use.

I read this somewhere - NRA, TSRA, or Gun Reports email newsletters, but the ruling seemed so arcane and convoluted at the time that I didn't really commit it to memory. Probably not something you could argue with a gun store owner / salesperson about, anyway.

[MOUNTIN DU]

whaow! i guess i never thought about the "reciever" as anything but a "rifle" part.

The BATF rules / regulations on long vs short guns have or are about to change, so that a receiver, which could be sold as either a "pistol" or a "rifle" can now be sold as either or designated as one or the other depending on its intended use.

I read this somewhere - NRA, TSRA, or Gun Reports email newsletters, but the ruling seemed so arcane and convoluted at the time that I didn't really commit it to memory. Probably not something you could argue with a gun store owner / salesperson about, anyway.

in fact, when i mentioned this to my son he said it's the same here and commensed to explain the difference between the "rifle" & "pistol" versions of the ar configurations.
my understanding; as explained to me by above, is that the "original registered" sale of the reciever as "rifle" or "pistol" constitutes it's "intended" use. once a "rifle" always a rifle, once a "pistol" always a pistol. all matters here-in subject to interpretation by the batf.

[Jim in Houston]

And to further clairfy things check out this link to helpful information from the DoJ on the definitions of a firearm, pistol and rifle - http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf. To quote a possibly salient point:

A firearm, as defined by the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3), is made when unassembled parts are placed in close proximity in such a way that they: (a) serve no useful purpose other than to make a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; or (b) convert a complete weapon into such an NFA firearm. A firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made when parts within a kit that were originally designed to be configured as both a pistol and a rifle are assembled or re-assembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol, or a rifle with a barrel or barrels of 16 inches or more in length). A firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made when a pistol is attached to a part or parts designed to convert the pistol into a rifle with a barrel or barrels of 16 inches or more in length, and the parts are later unassembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol). A firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4), is made when a handgun or other weapon with an overall length of less than 26 inches, or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length, is assembled or produced from a weapon originally assembled or produced only as a rifle.

I'm still looking for the original source to a summary of recent rule changes, but I may give up.

[commander faschisto]

Three words come to mind reading the above, but we don't do that on this forum...

[Texas Sheepdawg]

Clarity and the BATF/Eric Holder as it stands these days is an oxymoron.
Does fast and furious ring any bells?