.338-.450BM (8.58 SOCOM) Development

[Hoot]

Anybody seen this yet? 338 Spectre based off of the 6.8 spc and/or the 10mm magnum case. They are listing a 300 gr SMK bullet at about 1000fps out of an 18inch barrel. It's quite a bit different then the cartridge talked about in this forum but still may have it's place in some peoples hearts.

http://www.teppojutsu.com/338.htm

Information also found in ARRIFLEMAN March 2012 edition.

B.

That cartridge looks like one of those dogs that was spayed too young...

Hoot

[tridentarmory]

ive built several rifles off the 450 case in various wildcats including a 33-450, a 375-450, and a 416-450, among others... though the concepts are great, the struggle remains in the difference between a rifle designed to be fired suppressed, or not. and what the caliber is designed to destroy.

With the 338, the struggle I FOUND.... not necessarily the same as others.... is that bullet length becomes a serious issue, and the loss of case capacity is irritatingly low once the shoulder is formed. We should have used a radius style shoulder on our design, and i encourage anyone getting into this wildcat to toss this idea around. it adds over 2 grains(at least would have with our design) capacity.

i think the 375, would be an honest shooter, but i havent actually shot one yet, though we have dimensions, and loaded ammo to be fire formed if i get the spare time to have a barrel reamed to be similar to what i have to work with.



many people forget about the caliber 358 when looking at some of these options... though you will not see giant ballistic coeffecient numbers with the .358 stuff, i honestly believe that the bullets made in this caliber are some of the best designed projectiles to expand gradually that ive ever seen... and not many people have ever complained about the power and accuracy of a 35 whelen.( one of my all time favorites)

We have since almost given up with the case of the 450 for wildcats, as we dont care much about supression. we like stuff that kills big animals.

[tridentarmory]

this is going to sound more rude that its intended.... so dont get any tail feathers ruffled...



WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL WITH GOING TO A 338? DOES THE BALLISTIC CO. REALLY MEAN THAT MUCH ONCE YOU ARE UNDER THE SOUND BARRIER....?

why not just use a 450B.... load it down, and suppress?

you could be in the 1050fps neck of the woods with a load that would easily kill a man, bear or godzilla, and by easily using the heaviest bullets available, such as a 400 or so.... I think it would be much more effective than a 338.
Theres virtually no expansion of a 338 projectile at that speed, and because of that, there is a very small temporary wound channel.
at least the heavy 45 in my simple mind would enter the body making a 20% larger entrance wound.. Additionally, theres no need to invent more supression systems for odd calibers, theres a ton of stuff on the market for .451 projectiles.

im happy with feedback, this is just me ranting.... but i just havent seen the light... Maybe im totally wrong and i need to focus my company in this direction more, but i need to understand the calling a little more first.

[wildcatter]

I couldn't agree more with Trident.

The Doc (pittedbore) brings up some interesting questions.

First, let me just say, this guy with the overly neat bench and palm trees, is dangerously close to stomping on my Copywrites and Trademarks (I have then on all 450b variants from 475-17 cal), but that is not the real problem. I fear this gentleman might monkey things up to where it reflects badly on us.

To address some of the Doc's questions. This gentleman might just be spinning a yarn. First of all Barnes dose not make a 300 gr bullet, only Sierra does and I designed it for them, many long years ago. If one uses that bullet, in the manor where he suggest, he is so doing, the ojive is well into the case mouth. And further that 2200fps area is not believable. I can get 1800fps with that bullet, "BUUTTT" not without some Extreme, Impracticable, Tricks (Heck, the .338 Spectre, which is based on the 458 socom, which has much more case capacity than the 450b and for the 300gr SMK they only show 1000FPS, hence my suspicion of this gentleman's work.).

And, as Trident (James) has said, just choose the correct bullet for the mission and do them with the 450b, over the course.

As I have said, the backyard enthusiast is a real threat to us, as opposed to many who write on here, who are also very capable. I have not talked to James yet, but I plan to and plan to give him a helping hand as well, for anything that properly extends this science, has just got to be good, and I think that outfits like Trident, are well capable of doing allot of good..

..t

[kottke_35]

Anybody seen this yet? 338 Spectre based off of the 6.8 spc and/or the 10mm magnum case. They are listing a 300 gr SMK bullet at about 1000fps out of an 18inch barrel. It's quite a bit different then the cartridge talked about in this forum but still may have it's place in some peoples hearts.

http://www.teppojutsu.com/338.htm

Information also found in ARRIFLEMAN March 2012 edition.

B.

That cartridge looks like one of those dogs that was spayed too young...

Hoot

Well...not the analogy that I was thinking but hey, it works!

B.

[Texas Sheepdawg]

Now..... I'm just a lemur and WC is King Julien..... So my observation may be a bit like closing a barn door after the cows escaped.... But when I look at that cartridge, to me, it is visually silly and way out of balance. It just seems like you would have to have C4 or some other H.E. Just to get that projectile moving out of such a ridiculously tiny case. It just doesn't look like something practical. After seating the bullet, you don't have room for a powder charge of any sort to get that bullet to perform period. Visually..... It's a "Boy George" cartridge.

[tridentarmory]

WC.

thanks for being so outspoken, im about to start another thread entitled 450 subsonic suppressed.

[pitted bore]

This post is a note regarding the 8.58 SOCOOM: You all may know the following. I didn't, but I don't try to keep up with the latest in AR equipment.

In info from the GTO forum linked in the original post on this thread, "HKI" was cited as the contractor behind starting work on the 8.58 SOCOM. Ditto on the boating forum. Here's some info on HKI that google came up with,

HKI is most likely not Heckler & Koch. HKI is very probably Houlding and Kaufman Ironworks (HKI), from Madera CA, The persons behind this outfit were Todd Houlding and Tom Kaufman.

Their website, hkironworks.com, is now off the net.

At least until recently, HKI were building and selling ARs:
Youtube: Machining a billet aluminum AR-15 Lower
Youtube: Custom machined AR-15 by HKI

HKI apparently has very recently spun off or changed into Houlding Precision Firearms, Inc: Link to HPFI.

They do custom ARs, like HKI. There was a grand opening of their store yesterday, Tuesday, 31 Jan 2012. I know nothing of them, but the NRA apparently thinks enough of them to permit them to put the NRA seal on the mag wells.

FWIW.

--Bob
edited to update link ot HPFI

[wildcatter]

WC.

thanks for being so outspoken, im about to start another thread entitled 450 subsonic suppressed.

My pleasure Sir, anything I can do to make your projects successful, I will..

..t

[BillytheKid]

After visiting that web page, here's what I came away with:

"excellent performance on small to medium size game"

I wouldn't want to use a 338 on small game...