450 subsonic, and suppressed

[Hoot]

I would like to see a 200 grain bullett that goes at least 2500 fps...snip:D

IMHO, 2500 fps using a 200gr is about the top of the operational range of my 20" barrel 450B if I want it to hold together and also get decent accuracy. With WS2 plated Barnes 200gr XPB, I got excellent groups (sub MOA) running them around 2400-2450. Above that and they not only felt like they were losing control, but the groups reflected it. Now that was seating them a little short (2.18 COL) so that the taper crimp caught the lead driving band groove. YMMV

When not leaping tall buildings in a single bound, Wildcatter has reported stable and accurate results out to 2500 using the same bullet, but loaded as long as the magazine will accommodate reliably and catching the rear driving band groove with a stab crimp, but then he goes to church more frequently than I do.

Hoot

[Jim in Houston]

Am looking around for alternative bullets. What do you recommend for powder and how much are you using with the Barnes 200 gr XPB?

[Hoot]

Am looking around for alternative bullets. What do you recommend for powder and how much are you using with the Barnes 200 gr XPB?

I ran out of comfortable testing weather with a few remaining tasks on the table. One was to try some of the remaining Barnes 200 gr XPBs with AA 2400 as it does well with light bullets in the 450b. The bulk of my work with them was using Lil Gun, which got along just fine with them across a wide range of velocities, not all of which were by choice. I got good performance with my current bottle in the range of 43 to 45 gr, with 45 gr being what I consider the maximum safe load. The previous bottle I had yielded the same velocity range using a range of 38 to 40 gr, so IMHO, it would be prudent to start at 38 gr and work up. No telling where your particular bottle will fall. Also, you need to run hot primers like the Rem 7 1/2, GM205M or WSR in that order of preference. YMMV. I have a significant range report with tables and target images in the reloading for the 450b sub-forum. I encourage reading it and the responses.

Hoot

[Texas Sheepdawg]

I would like to see a 200 grain bullett that goes at least 2500 fps. I would not want a bullett that goes below 2000 fps. That is the differance between the .450 Bushmaster and the .50 Beowulf and the .458 SOCOM. I would Love to see a hard cast bullett that would maintain 2000 fps. Remember anything a .454 Casull can do the .450 Bushmaster can do better and is more accurate. I suggest any bullett that is made maintain 2000 fps. My suggestions would be to try 275 and 300 grain bulletts. Try hard cast bulletts, hollow points, and copper designs. Trident Armory can do for the .450 Bushmaster what Silver State Armory did for the 6.8 SPC. SSA revitalized the 6.8 SPC and made it so much better and is making big bank. I hope Trident can do the same. I would try 200, 225, 275, and 300 grain bulletts because I think any larger would make the round go below 2000 fps. Keep in touch and keep on shooting.

Well I'm already pushing 230 grains at 2400FPS and soon I hope to find the consistent load that will keep them in the 2550FPS range. Just using 38-39 grains of LilGun I blew through 3 one gallon waterjugs and expanded to about .900" with a loss of only 4-6 grains of bullet weight. I think it was only flying in the mid 2300FPS range. I will be working up more test loads with these and also with some 230 Grain FMJ Flat points. Right now, Weather and Time are my only obstacles.

[Hoot]

Well I'm already pushing 230 grains at 2400FPS and soon I hope to find the consistent load that will keep them in the 2550FPS range. Just using 38-39 grains of LilGun I blew through 3 one gallon waterjugs and expanded to about .900" with a loss of only 4-6 grains of bullet weight. I think it was only flying in the mid 2300FPS range. I will be working up more test loads with these and also with some 230 Grain FMJ Flat points. Right now, Weather and Time are my only obstacles.

38gr LilGun netted me an average around 2250 fps with the Magtechs. Guess its the variation in powder from one bottle to the next. Velocities were on par with the 225gr FTXs, which I've never taken to 2500 or beyond since they shot so accurately at 2250 fps. In testing, I got another accuracy node at 41gr LilGun (2397 fps), but it came with the beginnings of excessive pressure signs. I wouldn't be surprised if your brass starts showing excessive case head growth, ejector/extractor imprinting, or other excessive pressure signs before your reach your target of 2550 fps. Then again, that's what Lead Sleds and string are for eh, Mini-Tim?

Hoot

[commander faschisto]

Hah..."Mini-Tim"...good one, Hoot... I wonder if they wear matching outfits?

[Texas Sheepdawg]

Yawl shouldn't insult Tim like that. And I'm only going by what you guys have been telling me and by my own experiences with my 20" and Chrony.
Gunny says he's getting good life out of his brass pushing his 230s with 43+ grains of LG.
I'm just going to mimic yawls data and add the Legendre Crimp and see what I can come up with. All I'm trying to do is punch ONE hole in 7/16" steel plate and get it on video. But to call me "Little Tim"..... Not me! You guys are far more obscessed with your tinkering than I am.
I'm Just happy to be be here.

[wildcatter]

I would like to see a 200 grain bullett that goes at least 2500 fps. I would not want a bullett that goes below 2000 fps. That is the differance between the .450 Bushmaster and the .50 Beowulf and the .458 SOCOM. I would Love to see a hard cast bullett that would maintain 2000 fps. Remember anything a .454 Casull can do the .450 Bushmaster can do better and is more accurate. I suggest any bullett that is made maintain 2000 fps. My suggestions would be to try 275 and 300 grain bulletts. Try hard cast bulletts, hollow points, and copper designs. Trident Armory can do for the .450 Bushmaster what Silver State Armory did for the 6.8 SPC. SSA revitalized the 6.8 SPC and made it so much better and is making big bank. I hope Trident can do the same. I would try 200, 225, 275, and 300 grain bulletts because I think any larger would make the round go below 2000 fps. Keep in touch and keep on shooting.

200gr bullet at 2500fps, shouldn't be so tough. If you maintain safety discipline, go for it..

..t

[MarkCO]

There is a large market for subsonic suppressed firearms.... is there a market for the 450 if it can be done easily?
Can a 450 run with little to no modification, subsonic?
Why is the subsonic concept so popular, and what is its major reason for purchase on the american market(self defence, Law Enf., or plinking and fun)?
what is the range desires of the average suppressed purchaser? are we talking 100' or 100 yards?

It seems to me with the number of pre-existing projectiles in the right caliber are available... designed to expand reliably at the right velocities, and cheap to purchase.

Do you care about ballistic coeffecient at subsonic levels?

In the .45 caliber, it appears that a lot of the interest is for relatively close range suppressed weapons. In that realm, the .45 ACP has some merit and according to some suppressor manufacturers, is one of the cans they have trouble keeping in supply. So I think the demand for a .450 BM from that group will be limited because of the relative size of a handgun to a carbine. There are some local LE entry teams that have recently acquired several variants of .45 ACP suppressed weapons for entry teams and they seem to be pretty happy with the initial training.

Then you have a flip over to the longer range suppressed weapons, and the carbines walk right in. Here accuracy and BC are important because the stand-off distance helps to mitigate action noise. Competing with the .300 Whisper is easy, competing with the 300AAC, not so much. The larger whisper calibers never gained much traction as compared to the .300. If the company was not so (you know) they would OWN the mid-range suppressed marketplace. At this time, going head to head with the 300AAC, I would not go to a .450 BM in a carbine. The .30 caliber 240 grain slugs hold their velocity so well at range, past 100 yards, they will pass the heavier slugs of the .450 BM that would be need to be suppressed. I'm not seeing any high BC slugs in .45 caliber that are in the 500 grain range that will be effective at the 100 to 300 yard ranges.

To me, a .450 SS and Suppressed won't give me anything over the competitive cartrdiges. For plinking, I use .22 and 9mm, for short range, the .45 ACP, for mid-range, the .300 (something) in an AR-15 platform. For hunting and actual long range, suppressed is still good, but I shed the subsonic requirement because ultimate performance is my goal.

While I might be able to see some credence to the guy with only "one gun", the folks who buy suppressors typically are not one gun folks.