BLACK FOLLOWER Technical support: Tips and Tricks

Talk about the AR15 style rifles chambered in 450 Bushmaster.

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Re: BLACK FOLLOWER Technical support: Tips and Tricks

Postby Wicked Hunter » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:38 pm

You sure can. I'm sure you'll like the lancer mags. All you should have to do is put the little half moon in the front of the mag body and make the black follower fit. I used a Dremel with the half inch sanding drum. Then used a utility knife to debur.
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Re: BLACK FOLLOWER Technical support: Tips and Tricks

Postby Blasternank » Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:26 pm

Wicked Hunter wrote:You sure can. I'm sure you'll like the lancer mags. All you should have to do is put the little half moon in the front of the mag body and make the black follower fit. I used a Dremel with the half inch sanding drum. Then used a utility knife to debur.


Could you post a couple of pictures? I'd be curious to see it so I can do everything correctly. If anyone else does any modifications, please post pictures as we'd love to see what needs to be done. I can read fine, but a picture or two will ensure success.

Thanks.
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Re: BLACK FOLLOWER Technical support: Tips and Tricks

Postby Wicked Hunter » Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:35 pm

I will post some pics, just need a few days. Lifes been a litle hectic around here lately.
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Re: BLACK FOLLOWER Technical support: Tips and Tricks

Postby Hoot » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:41 pm

Blasternank wrote:
Could you post a couple of pictures? I'd be curious to see it so I can do everything correctly. If anyone else does any modifications, please post pictures as we'd love to see what needs to be done. I can read fine, but a picture or two will ensure success.

Thanks.



I use a carbide 5/16 Dremel burr to the same effect. Some just use a rat tail file. Not much to see. Just a quarter to half moon dip in the top of the front mag wall. IIRC, some folks relieve the rear about .1 inch as well, but in that case, just use a flat file. I foolishly ran out of 20 round straight body AR Stoner SS mags. It was hectic staging and packing for deer camp and I forgot to order some before the sale ended last week. Anybody load up on them while they were on sale, who could sell me one or two to do a how-to video? The only mag I have left that is unmodded is some oddball aluminum curved body 25 rounder that Midway shipped me by mistake. Not a big fan of aluminum mags, so was saving it for the odd times when I put my 5.56 bull barrel on to go shooting. It's my least used caliber AR barrel, what with the 450b, 6.5 Grendel and 7.62x40WT variants I have. I abandoned the .44 Hoot project and sold the barrel and magazine to another fellow about a month ago. My 6.5 Grendel is my backup upper for deer hunting. It's so flat and accurate that I use for longer shots. IMHO, Shooting Times is right. It's the best military round the Military never adopted.

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Re: BLACK FOLLOWER Technical support: Tips and Tricks

Postby 45r » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:32 pm

The 6.5 Gendel is quite good but it's hard on bolts sometimes and they don't last for FA.I think that pretty much takes it out of the picture for the MIL.The 6.8 is better for bolt strength,short barrels, FA and close range.The hot AR calibur that can do everything well is the 6mm Hagar(based on the 6.8).I think it would make the most versatile round and be good FA,something the MIL wants.High power shooters(Creedmore) use it and win.I will get it once the Big companies like Hornady make it mainstream.They make brass and dies for it.It would be great for yotes at long range and good for deer to at least 300 yards.Most of my shots at deer are under 150 yards so I like the 450 better than anything else so far.
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Re: BLACK FOLLOWER Technical support: Tips and Tricks

Postby wildcatter » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:33 pm

45r wrote:The 6.5 Gendel is quite good but it's hard on bolts sometimes and they don't last for FA.I think that pretty much takes it out of the picture for the MIL.The 6.8 is better for bolt strength,short barrels, FA and close range.The hot AR calibur that can do everything well is the 6mm Hagar(based on the 6.8).I think it would make the most versatile round and be good FA,something the MIL wants.High power shooters(Creedmore) use it and win.I will get it once the Big companies like Hornady make it mainstream.They make brass and dies for it.It would be great for yotes at long range and good for deer to at least 300 yards.Most of my shots at deer are under 150 yards so I like the 450 better than anything else so far.




You're right about the bolts.

Bottle necked case have far more bolt thrust than straight cases of the same caliber. I'd venture to say we and I'd be correct, that with our 45 cal, large, straight case, we have far less bolt thrust than either the 6.8spc or the 6.5g and the .223, I may add..

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Re: BLACK FOLLOWER Technical support: Tips and Tricks

Postby 30Hart » Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:50 am

The Brownell aluminum GI mags work well. Just finished range testing one 20 round mag. Just popped in the black follower and cut a 1/2 inch halfcircle in the front of the mag with a dremel just like the factory Bushmasters and it worked perfectly...also a lot lighter weight than the originals w/o the plug.
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Re: BLACK FOLLOWER Technical support: Tips and Tricks

Postby MarkCO » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:32 pm

I did a bunch of bench work and test fitting and built 7 different .450 BM magazines yesterday. Today, I ran rounds through them all without a worry in live fire.

1. C-Products 20 rounds SS mag. Disassembled, swapped orange follower for black .450 follower, smoothed feed lips. 8 rounds.

2. Stoner 30 round SS mag. Disassembled, swapped black follower for black .450 follower. 12 rounds. (mags currently on sale for $12.49 MidwayUSA)

3. Sanchez (Vietnam era contractor) 30 round aluminum. Disassembled, swapped green follower for black .450 follower. 12 rounds.

4. Brownells build up. 30 round mag body ($8.99) and CS 30 round spring ($1.99) with Arredondo Extended basepad ($9.99). Assemble. 12 rounds.

5. Lancer 30 round AWM. Disassembled, cut 0.3" crescent on front of mag body, remove 0.1" from stand offs on each side of .450 follower, assemble. 12 rounds.

6. C Product 40 round SS mag. Disassembled, swapped black follower for black .450 follower. 15 rounds.

7. Lancer 48 round. Disassembled, cut 0.3" crescent on front of mag body, remove 0.1" from stand offs on each side of .450 follower, assemble. 19 rounds.

I must say I like steel feed lips, so the Stoner, C-Products and Lancer are likely what I will use when in the field, but I will continure to test all 7 flavors everytime I get the .450 BM to the range. The Brownells, if you forgo the extended basepad, is the cheapest at $17 complete with the $6 for the follower. The 40 round C-Products is a pretty good build up with a few more rounds, if you can find the magazines. I bought 10 when I heard C-Products was about to go under, so I am pretty well set for my various AR calibers. I would not recomend 7, the torque on the metal to aluminum connection will eventually fail. I've seen these fail in 3Gun with some regularity. I have 2 Lancers ready to send back to get worked over. But, 20 rounds of .450 BM in 3.4 seconds was pretty amazing.
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Re: BLACK FOLLOWER Technical support: Tips and Tricks

Postby Wicked Hunter » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:48 pm

How did the Lancer AWM Mag do for you? I havent had time to test mine yet so i didnt want to post anything until i knew it functioned properly. I did as you did, and removed about .1 fom both sides. I also had to remove some from the sides of the rear nub that catches the bolt to get it to fit in the groove. the only other fit issue i had was the follower not traveling all the way up. (probably wouldnt latch the bolt open.) I noticed a bent over tab on each side towards the front hitting the front standoff. I simply removed a little of the front standoff towards the yop of the follower for clearance. As i said i havent ran it yet but the follower moves through the mag very freely and i doubt i have any troubles, as i have used this same mag already by modifying the original follower.
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Re: BLACK FOLLOWER Technical support: Tips and Tricks

Postby MarkCO » Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:03 pm

There are some iterations of Lancer mags in the two original versions and the AWMs. I chose one of mine that does not have to folded over metal tab on each side at the front, so it was no issue. When I say I removed 0.1" from the sides, it was all of the sides, so yes the tab in the back as well. I ran the top two off the stack 3 times and the last two three times and a full magazine once, all 100%. I did not have enough ammo to test 7 magazines full three times each. :o

I thought about doing a PMag too, but they wear out so fast in .308 that I figured it was not worth the effort.
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