NRA wants to borrow my upper.

Talk about the AR15 style rifles chambered in 450 Bushmaster.

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Re: NRA wants to borrow my upper.

Postby Bmt85 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:43 pm

I am not a lawyer, so read up on the laws for yourself. If you can legally own firearms, you can legally build them yourself, by federal law. Also it is not required to have a serial number by federal law either. If you intend to sell or distribute said firearms, you must have a manufacturers license, or it will be considered illegal. After that, you have to deal with state laws. Kenn is from Michigan, so as long as he doesn't build what qualifies as a pistol by Michigan law, it doesn't require a serial number. If it qualifies as a pistol, put a serial number on it and register it with Michigan state police. I personally don't think it's worth the effort for an AR because registered lowers are very close in price to 80%.
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Re: NRA wants to borrow my upper.

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:33 am

Laws aside.
I don't think the polymer lowers will stand up to the demands of a 450 Bushmaster. Just my .02.
But I've heard they make jigs now to finish out the 80% lowers.
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Re: NRA wants to borrow my upper.

Postby plant_one » Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:03 pm

Bmt85 wrote:I am not a lawyer, so read up on the laws for yourself. If you can legally own firearms, you can legally build them yourself, by federal law. Also it is not required to have a serial number by federal law either. If you intend to sell or distribute said firearms, you must have a manufacturers license, or it will be considered illegal. After that, you have to deal with state laws. Kenn is from Michigan, so as long as he doesn't build what qualifies as a pistol by Michigan law, it doesn't require a serial number. If it qualifies as a pistol, put a serial number on it and register it with Michigan state police. I personally don't think it's worth the effort for an AR because registered lowers are very close in price to 80%.


this is very well summed up.

in and of itself, there's no legal issues with building 80%'s as long as you meet the other requirements necessary - both state and federal - to own and possess a firearm. This however does not give you permission to be come a manufacturer without licensing - these laws are in regard to firearms intended to be built for personal use only.

under federal law home built firearms (including 80% builds) do not require a serial number and as stated here in michigan unless you build a pistol there's no requirement to serialize them either. the serialization requirement would also come into play (federally) if one were building a SBR out of an 80% receiver under a Form 1.

Texas Sheepdawg wrote:Laws aside.
I don't think the polymer lowers will stand up to the demands of a 450 Bushmaster. Just my .02.
But I've heard they make jigs now to finish out the 80% lowers.


yea i wouldnt want to trust any big bore AR to a poly lower. Even some of the newer reinforced lowers likely wouldnt be happy with the abuse that any of the big bore's produce when the bolt carrier cycles, or if you did it would require using a lightweight carrier and a heavily tuned gas system (via an adjustable gas block) to make it anywhere near practical. as i mentioned in the other thread - save the poly lowers for specialty lightweight 223 builds or 22lr ar' builds.

there are jigs available to complete aluminum (and poly) ar lowers - some systems use a drill press, others use a router, some can be done with not much more than a hand drill - although this usually applies to the poly lowers.

you dont save ANY money when building an 80% - the lowers are usually more expensive (i see them selling for $50-$90) and then you have to add on a jig and tooling (which can easily total another $150 or more). If you're building a single 80% you could easily be $200 into your lower by the time you're done - and thats assuming you already have the necessary tools (drill press, router, etc) to utilize the jig you've purchased and the tooling to go with it.

the only way to really come out even close to ahead would be to invest in a good jig that's capable of doing multiple lowers (many jigs are one or two lowers and throw em away) and are planning on building 5+ lowers or splitting the cost with a buddy so you can both use the jig to build lowers.
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Re: NRA wants to borrow my upper.

Postby Bmt85 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Texas Sheepdawg wrote:Laws aside.
I don't think the polymer lowers will stand up to the demands of a 450 Bushmaster. Just my .02.
But I've heard they make jigs now to finish out the 80% lowers.


Agreed. I have seen a couple different registered poly lowers (not 80%) tested by doing mag dumps with big bores, however I would not expect that lower to have a very long life. From what I've seen from the 80%er's, it looks like the worst option for big bores. A few have had (or still have) casting problems so they crack fairly easily.

I personally had a new frontier poly lower, assembled it once, never put a upper on it, needed a few parts, so disassembled it. Eventually rebuilt it and cracked the magwell at the seam trying to attach an upper. So I honestly would not use a poly lower for anything but a .22 lr build.

If someone plans to do an 80% aluminum lower, please don't use a drill press as a mill. They weren't meant to be side loaded and it could turn into a really bad day for you.
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Re: NRA wants to borrow my upper.

Postby BayShoreBallistics » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:56 pm

I am no fan of the polymer lowers either.
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