Mag and feeding problems

Talk about the AR15 style rifles chambered in 450 Bushmaster.

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Re: Mag and feeding problems

Postby SGWINK » Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:37 pm

Gtek wrote:Have you tried on another lower? Taken a round and confirmed ejection port clearance has been opened enough all the way to rear of port for clean ejection, >.500"? Have cases been visually inspected for any dents, scratches, etc.?


Hey Gtek - No - not another lower "Yet" - but will try if other checks on the bolt carrier and the magazine check out. Also the Ejection port and the clearance therein have been opened even more than standard - with a custom deflection ramp as well. I shoot lefty and the casings do fly out slightly forward - The clean ejections (when they dont jam) to us seem to be a result of the fact of being under gassed or the buffer being too much. We have tried a multitude of springs in combination of a few buffers. However the multi-adjustable custom buffers are the next item. And again - its port is maxed opened for gas.

Will be able to break it down tomorrow a bit further as my house guests are leaving tonight. Thank you for the suggestions...
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Re: Mag and feeding problems

Postby SGWINK » Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:48 pm

pnw wrote:I had a couple of Bushmaster lowers that wouldn't hold open due to the pivot being drilled too close to the lower body...but that doesn't seem like the problem you are having.

You are using factory Hornady ammo??? Are you using a heavy buffer or spring? I've found no need for either and, if used, they could cause insufficient bolt movement. Perhaps overkill, but I lube and dry-fire new builds 500 times to slick the carrier/upper.


PNW - We will definitely triple check the pivot pin location. Nice suggestion on this.

I am using factory Hornady exclusively. And yes the buffer is a heavy buffer. The Spring has been swapped out with a brand new less heavy one. Your comment of not using a heavy buffer is the option were going to try using an adjustable one - or - standard... I agree on the insufficient bolt movement as the combination of ejection issues would do exactly that. It is hit and miss on that. DIVIDE and Conquer was suggested to not confuse or conflict the issues. It might be a standard buffer will solve all the issues... maybe not until I start to individually break down the items one by one.

I am going to consult my Smith and talk about the option of lube and dry fire. It needs to be functioned another 200 times I feel and thats easy enough. He has a nice lube kit (I expect the topic of Lube for guns is another thread all in itself) ready for me and the build. I have a multitude of hand guns and rifles that I use Hopps on all day every day
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Re: Mag and feeding problems

Postby pnw » Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:58 pm

If the bolt holds open manually, I doubt pin location is the problem. But, if it is, you can sand down the lower part of the catch where it contacts the outside of the lower. That allows the top of the catch to move higher inside the lower.
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Re: Mag and feeding problems

Postby SGWINK » Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:32 pm

OK thank you very much to all who replied...

Yes - the bolt carrier holds open manually when an empty mag is in... and I did this with multiple eyes and good light conditions to see and actuated it manually slowly > and it appears to operate exactly as it should as it locks open.

Took the bolt carrier out, dismantled it down to the finger and spring within the bolt and found no issues.

The other thing I did note is were the three spring rings on the bolt had two outer rings where the openings or gaps were on them were aligned. The middle ring was rotated half way.

My Smith says that those rings need ALL TO BE rotated so NONE of them align with relativity to one another - meaning each ring should be rotated in positions so that no openings align...

He explained that if they were aligned some under gas issues can certainly happen...

Any thoughts on this?

Other than this, the carrier is just starting to get normal use wear. I would call this just starting to wear in. In fact the carrier seemed, to the touch, where the wear is starting have a feel as if it had a flake edge between the wearing part and non wear. I believe the Nitride carrier is coated and its as if the coating, as it wears, has an edge... Its hard to explain. I will take some pics later and try to provide images to help.

Other than that she needs a modification on the underside of the charging handle as this is so tight, it is just ever-so-slightly rubbing on the top of the surface of the butt-stock...need to create a bit more of a gap to help prevent unwanted rubbing visual signs.
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Re: Mag and feeding problems

Postby Hoot » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:47 pm

SGWINK wrote:...snip...
My Smith says that those rings need ALL TO BE rotated so NONE of them align with relativity to one another - meaning each ring should be rotated in positions so that no openings align...

He explained that if they were aligned some under gas issues can certainly happen...

Any thoughts on this?...sip...


He's right, you want all of them rotated so that the slits are not adjacent. In a perfect world, they would be 120 deg apart, but anything other adjacent is good. They typically stay where you set them as the only motion they encounter is in and out. If kept clean, the bolt itself does not bind to them and cause them to spin. A good rule of thumb is whenever you take the bolt out to clean the carbon off, check them and adjust their positioning before putting the bolt back in. There is a seal you can buy to replace the separate leaves, that is one continuous spiraling piece of metal.

Image

I've never felt the need to wrestle the three separate rings off and put one on, so I can't comment on how hard that is or how well it works.

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Re: Mag and feeding problems

Postby SGWINK » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:02 am

Hoot wrote:
SGWINK wrote:...snip...
My Smith says that those rings need ALL TO BE rotated so NONE of them align with relativity to one another - meaning each ring should be rotated in positions so that no openings align...

He explained that if they were aligned some under gas issues can certainly happen...

Any thoughts on this?...sip...


He's right, you want all of them rotated so that the slits are not adjacent. In a perfect world, they would be 120 deg apart, but anything other adjacent is good. They typically stay where you set them as the only motion they encounter is in and out. If kept clean, the bolt itself does not bind to them and cause them to spin. A good rule of thumb is whenever you take the bolt out to clean the carbon off, check them and adjust their positioning before putting the bolt back in. There is a seal you can buy to replace the separate leaves, that is one continuous spiraling piece of metal.

Image

I've never felt the need to wrestle the three separate rings off and put one on, so I can't comment on how hard that is or how well it works.

Hoot


Indeed excellent to learn this information and might just be the root of the issues. Gun, a case of ammo going to him Thursday to take the time and really dig into it. The Gun Season and Pre-Xmas orders had him pretty busy. So now having the freedom to make it his number one priority I am excited to see what he sees after the alignment of the rings and some of the offering from this Forum as suggestible tweaks > should make the difference in the final tweaks on the weapon a issue free reality.
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Re: Mag and feeding problems

Postby SGWINK » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:10 pm

Regarding BHO issues....

Anyone using a BAD Lever? If so any issues related?
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Re: Mag and feeding problems

Postby Hoot » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:48 pm

SGWINK wrote:Regarding BHO issues....

Anyone using a BAD Lever? If so any issues related?


I have not felt the need to use one, so all I can venture is that as long as it doesn't prevent the hook from disengaging the follower all the way when relaxed, I can't imagine any negatives once you get used to it physically being there.

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Re: Mag and feeding problems

Postby SGWINK » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:33 pm

Hoot wrote:
SGWINK wrote:Regarding BHO issues....

Anyone using a BAD Lever? If so any issues related?


I have not felt the need to use one, so all I can venture is that as long as it doesn't prevent the hook from disengaging the follower all the way when relaxed, I can't imagine any negatives once you get used to it physically being there.

Hoot


Thanks Hoot - I am used to it being there but totally not needed. Its not like I am Rambo"ing" my way through Nam vegetation clear cutting as I go. Neither do I need it for hunting... I cant imagine needing to drop a magazine - slap another in and continue to launch an assault on Venison. Military reasons sure but I use it for hunting and varmint reduction.... I am removing it to see how it reacts to more rounds this weekend.. PEACE!
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Re: Mag and feeding problems

Postby sparkie259 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:58 am

I'm new here and also to the 450B. I just put mine together. It seems the big issue with it is with magazines and feeding them. I''ve seen a lot of chatter on using single stack followers in 223 mags. I tried that and it didn't work that great for me. There were cycling issues and LRH didn't work. Last night I was working on another AR and picked up the magazine and figured I just give it a try. It was a Lancer L5AWN 20 round 223 mag. With no mods to the mags I was able to load 6 rounds. Just got back from the range and they worked great. No cycling issues and LRH worked just fine. I was using factory Hornady FTX bullets.Maybe this has been tried by someone else but I either didn't see the thread. Maybe I just missed it. Either way I just wanted to throw this out to the group.
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