Range Report Bartz Mfg 450b Upper 1st Outing

Talk about the AR15 style rifles chambered in 450 Bushmaster.

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Re: Range Report Bartz Mfg 450b Upper 1st Outing

Postby Bmt85 » Sat May 26, 2018 11:02 am

That’s interesting, didn’t know ER Shaw did polygonal, thought they just did standard enfield rifling. How many grooves does it have?

I’m still waiting for someone to come out with a 1:24 twist 3 groove poly or ratchet rifling. I believe we could get a decent velocity gain when leaning on it. BHW is a 3 groove poly, but has an 1:18 twist. So far it’s showing promise, but since the bolt failure, I haven’t had time to do any shooting.
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Re: Range Report Bartz Mfg 450b Upper 1st Outing

Postby plant_one » Sat May 26, 2018 12:05 pm

Ritch's precision guns is working with Tactical SOlutions these days, instead of BHW. Their polygonal stuff is a 5 grove instead of a 3, but his website also only shows them in 1:18 twist.

might want to give him a shout and see if they can do a 1:24 now that they're working with TS instead of BHW.

https://ritchsprecisionguns.com/contact-us/


TS makes nice barrels, i have one in 6x45 that i'll be load testing soon - waiting on my rocksett to arrive for the flash hider
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Re: Range Report Bartz Mfg 450b Upper 1st Outing

Postby Bmt85 » Sun May 27, 2018 8:04 am

plant_one wrote:Ritch's precision guns is working with Tactical SOlutions these days, instead of BHW. Their polygonal stuff is a 5 grove instead of a 3, but his website also only shows them in 1:18 twist.

might want to give him a shout and see if they can do a 1:24 now that they're working with TS instead of BHW.

https://ritchsprecisionguns.com/contact-us/


TS makes nice barrels, i have one in 6x45 that i'll be load testing soon - waiting on my rocksett to arrive for the flash hider


TacSol? Didn’t know they branched out from Ruger .22 stuff.
I looked at Ritch’s site, and it seems all the calibers they offer are still using BHW barrels. Maybe I’ll send them email and see whats up.
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Re: Range Report Bartz Mfg 450b Upper 1st Outing

Postby Hoot » Sun May 27, 2018 11:57 am

Its a 6-groove barrel.

I may have experienced an optical illusion when I first viewed the bore, before scrubbing away the brass buildup.

Here's a poor resolution image of the bore once the brass was scrubbed away:

450b_polygonal.jpg
450b_polygonal.jpg (24.38 KiB) Viewed 804 times


If you look at the two points where the slope appears to transition to the low areas, there's a thin darker line that may well be the shadow created where the high area drops down to the low area, AKA regular rifling. Before I scrubbed away the brass buildup and I could kick myself for not grabbing an image, albeit poor, of what I saw, the brass reflection was strong right where the high area transitioned into the apparent slope. That strong brass reflection continued down the apparent slope, stopping where it transitioned to the low area. It was a compelling sight to see in real time but my 63 years old eyes and the compromise image provided by the poor man's borescope, may have left me fooled.

You be the judge. I still intend to slug the bore to satisfy my curiosity.

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Re: Range Report Bartz Mfg 450b Upper 1st Outing

Postby Bmt85 » Sun May 27, 2018 1:34 pm

That looks like it's standard rifling, but the slopes don't look straight. May be worth slugging it.
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Re: Range Report Bartz Mfg 450b Upper 1st Outing

Postby Avenger10 » Mon May 28, 2018 5:55 am

Hi Guys-

Hoot asked me to weigh in...

Sorry to be the pooper at the party but we are still using the time tested, reliable ole fashioned Enfield rifling on all our rifles... at least for now. We have experimented with some of the new cool-aide configurations and different twist rates but just don't see enough difference to change my mind. I have had long talks with Carl at BHW, even have him on speed dial but I like the Enfield rifling and it is very reliable and especially durable. Also of note and just to let you all know I can change my mind on occasion, we are now Black Nitriding all of our stainless barrels. We discovered that the BN barrels were consistently shooting 100fps faster than our SS barrels due to the bore on the BN being a little tighter. I believe this also helps with the handloading as it gets pressures up a little quicker for those of us who taper crimp.

For those of you looking for something a little out of the ordinary, check out our new 22" Ranger Hunter on the website. It comes with all the bells and whistles including our own adjustable drop in trigger and carbon fiber handguard.

Thanks for reaching out Hoot. It gets so busy over here that I forget about our friends on 450bushmaster.net

-Barttman
BRENTON | BARTZ
www.brentonusa.com
517.281.2571
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Re: Range Report Bartz Mfg 450b Upper 1st Outing

Postby Hoot » Mon May 28, 2018 8:25 am

Avenger10 wrote:Hi Guys-

Hoot asked me to weigh in...

Sorry to be the pooper at the party but we are still using the time tested, reliable ole fashioned Enfield rifling on all our rifles... at least for now. We have experimented with some of the new cool-aide configurations and different twist rates but just don't see enough difference to change my mind. I have had long talks with Carl at BHW, even have him on speed dial but I like the Enfield rifling and it is very reliable and especially durable. Also of note and just to let you all know I can change my mind on occasion, we are now Black Nitriding all of our stainless barrels. We discovered that the BN barrels were consistently shooting 100fps faster than our SS barrels due to the bore on the BN being a little tighter. I believe this also helps with the handloading as it gets pressures up a little quicker for those of us who taper crimp.

For those of you looking for something a little out of the ordinary, check out our new 22" Ranger Hunter on the website. It comes with all the bells and whistles including our own adjustable drop in trigger and carbon fiber handguard.

Thanks for reaching out Hoot. It gets so busy over here that I forget about our friends on 450bushmaster.net

-Barttman


Just to add a small footnote to what Bartman said, I have a Franklin Armory 20" 450b barrel that is nitrided inside and out. It does develop more pressure=velocity for a given load than either my original chrome plated 450b or the unplated SS Bartz, the bore of which is pictured above. Unfortunately, the Franklin has a rifle length gas port and I haven't pursued blocking it off and drilling a mid-length port instead. It came out during the "Corvette" craze. That nitrided chamber was so tight as to not meet the SAAMI spec on record or the 450b, by about .0005. I had to have it reamed (no small task given the hardness) to stop cases that made spec, from getting stuck in it. Bartman, if you read this, take that into consideration when having reamers made.

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Re: Range Report Bartz Mfg 450b Upper 1st Outing

Postby Bmt85 » Mon May 28, 2018 11:42 am

Avenger10 wrote:Hi Guys-

Hoot asked me to weigh in...

Sorry to be the pooper at the party but we are still using the time tested, reliable ole fashioned Enfield rifling on all our rifles... at least for now. We have experimented with some of the new cool-aide configurations and different twist rates but just don't see enough difference to change my mind. I have had long talks with Carl at BHW, even have him on speed dial but I like the Enfield rifling and it is very reliable and especially durable. Also of note and just to let you all know I can change my mind on occasion, we are now Black Nitriding all of our stainless barrels. We discovered that the BN barrels were consistently shooting 100fps faster than our SS barrels due to the bore on the BN being a little tighter. I believe this also helps with the handloading as it gets pressures up a little quicker for those of us who taper crimp.

For those of you looking for something a little out of the ordinary, check out our new 22" Ranger Hunter on the website. It comes with all the bells and whistles including our own adjustable drop in trigger and carbon fiber handguard.

Thanks for reaching out Hoot. It gets so busy over here that I forget about our friends on 450bushmaster.net

-Barttman


Couple questions about your 22” upper. What length gas system and will you offer it without threads?
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Re: Range Report Bartz Mfg 450b Upper 1st Outing

Postby plant_one » Mon May 28, 2018 1:12 pm

Bmt85 wrote:
plant_one wrote:Ritch's precision guns is working with Tactical SOlutions these days, instead of BHW. Their polygonal stuff is a 5 grove instead of a 3, but his website also only shows them in 1:18 twist.

might want to give him a shout and see if they can do a 1:24 now that they're working with TS instead of BHW.

https://ritchsprecisionguns.com/contact-us/


TS makes nice barrels, i have one in 6x45 that i'll be load testing soon - waiting on my rocksett to arrive for the flash hider


TacSol? Didn’t know they branched out from Ruger .22 stuff.
I looked at Ritch’s site, and it seems all the calibers they offer are still using BHW barrels. Maybe I’ll send them email and see whats up.



they havent updated their website yet as i understand it.

either ritch or the staff will set ya straight though on what they have and what they can do for sure.
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Re: Range Report Bartz Mfg 450b Upper 1st Outing

Postby Avenger10 » Mon May 28, 2018 1:33 pm

BMT85-

We still run mid-gas on our 22" as that gives the best reliability in the 450 but you will find we have a unique barrel profile and a special transition through our gas port region which makes for a particularly stiff barrel in a mid-gas system. It shoots great and with added velocity from both the extra bbl length and the black nitride finish. Also, we run a different gas port diameter on the 22" than we do on the shorter barrels.

Give us a call at the shop, id be happy to discuss with you.

-Barttman
BRENTON | BARTZ
www.brentonusa.com
517.281.2571
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