450B Lead-Free Loaded Ammo - Available?

Talk about the AR15 style rifles chambered in 450 Bushmaster.

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450B Lead-Free Loaded Ammo - Available?

Postby pitted bore » Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:33 pm

There have been frequent posts on this site from persons asking about loaded 450B ammo with lead-free bullets for hunting in California and other locations with similar regulations.


I found a company that offers lead-free loaded ammo in 450B. A link to their web site: Load-X Ammunition Company
Here's an screen shot of the pertinent entry from their from their catalog:
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Image
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I called them recently, and they stated they were out of stock, but would soon load up a bunch. Interested persons might phone or email them about these loads. (Disclaimer: I have no any connection with the company beyond the inquiring phone call.)

The 200-grain Barnes XPB (Barnes #: 30554) in my limited experience is a fine hunting bullet. Hoot has recommended it in several posts.

I am puzzled why the load with the 200-grain Barnes bullet is listed in the catalog at a lesser muzzle velocity (2030 fps) than the 250-grain Hornady bullet (2150 fps).

--Bob
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Re: 450B Lead-Free Loaded Ammo - Available?

Postby Hoot » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:47 am

pitted bore wrote:...snip...

I am puzzled why the load with the 200-grain Barnes bullet is listed in the catalog at a lesser muzzle velocity (2030 fps) than the 250-grain Hornady bullet (2150 fps).

--Bob


That is either a typo, or they need to take their R&D back to the range. The 200 XPB easily hits 2400 fps without over stressing the cases or the rifle. In the case of the solid copper projectiles, they need all the MV they can deliver. Mainly if you expect to be taking shots out beyond 100 yards. That is assuming the worst case scenario of hitting no bones. If you introduce a bone hit, or the cartilage plate in the case of hogs, then expansion will obviously change for the better. WRT expansion, the .451-.452 bullet, at velocities we consider normal in the 450b, is very lethal inside 100 yds even if no expansion occurs at all.

Careful load workup has yielded a 2500fps 200 XPB that I carry for deer. Here's the reason why:

from older Barnes XPB experiments threads

Image

Yielding

Image

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Re: 450B Lead-Free Loaded Ammo - Available?

Postby pitted bore » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:25 am

Hoot-
Of course you're correct.

Should they want to stick with published data for the 200-grain Barnes XPB bullet, the Western powder manual has data for several powders with that bullet: Western Powders Reloading Guide 5.0.

Powders are Accurate No, 9, Ramshot Enforcer, Accurate 4100, and Accurate 5744. The starting loads for these powders have higher velocities than the velocity that Load-X shows. Within SAAMI max pressure limits, the Western manuals show Enforcer/4100 exceeding 2500 fps from a 16-inch barrel.

--Bob
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Re: 450B Lead-Free Loaded Ammo - Available?

Postby Hoot » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:37 pm

pitted bore wrote:...snip...
Should they want to stick with published data for the 200-grain Barnes XPB bullet, the Western powder manual has data for several powders with that bullet: Western Powders Reloading Guide 5.0...snip...

--Bob


Bob, thanks for that link!!! I haven't added much to my Reloading folder in my Bookmarks in a long time. Very good reference data. Would never have believed that 1680 was fast enough for 230 fmj until seeing that. For those contemplating looking at the Western Manual, the 450B is on page 53 of 54 in the pdf.

For those not familiar with my XPB water shots work, one of the more interesting revelations, though not surprising, that came from the gallon water jug tests was the slower the XPB is traveling, the more jugs it penetrates. I refer to this as the sea anchor effect. The XPB being relatively pointy, will punch further through a medium before slowing to a halt, much more so than when it expands.

One picture is worth a thousand words for you non-seafaring folks. ;)

Image

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Re: 450B Lead-Free Loaded Ammo - Available?

Postby Gifters » Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:34 am

I'm waiting to continue my reloads for when the the temperature drops and I get my suppressor, but thanks for the great bullet comparison. I wonder if the 275's follow a similar trend in expansion at the same velocities.
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Re: 450B Lead-Free Loaded Ammo - Available?

Postby Hoot » Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:35 am

Gifters wrote:I'm waiting to continue my reloads for when the the temperature drops and I get my suppressor, but thanks for the great bullet comparison. I wonder if the 275's follow a similar trend in expansion at the same velocities.


The front end of the 200 and 275 Barnes XPB are identical, so the same velocity rules for expansion apply. It is worth repeating that the performance I observed would be indicative of a strictly soft tissue hit. If the bullets hit bone, you can expect greater expansion for the same velocity. Hard to get a bullet through most game without hitting a bone somewhere.

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Re: 450B Lead-Free Loaded Ammo - Available?

Postby Gifters » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:04 pm

I'd actually expect less expansion on bone with the Barnes since they require hydraulic pressure to expand, but its going to depend if you hit surface bone or deep bone.
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Re: 450B Lead-Free Loaded Ammo - Available?

Postby Hoot » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:18 pm

Gifters wrote:I'd actually expect less expansion on bone with the Barnes since they require hydraulic pressure to expand, but its going to depend if you hit surface bone or deep bone.


Good point. In my mind's eye, I'd expect the once expansion has initiated from passing through the surface soft tissue, any encounter with bones will not be a pretty picture. ;)

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Re: 450B Lead-Free Loaded Ammo - Available?

Postby Gifters » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:39 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsRUfA1_Alw

Looking at this slow motion barnes video, it looks like a short neck for expansion but their is some neck
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Re: 450B Lead-Free Loaded Ammo - Available?

Postby 450BARNBURNER » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:36 am

Though I can not yet vouch for it myself, Black Butterfly Ammo has some very interesting offerings in sub up to fairly hot stuff. Most in monometal bullets.
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