Tarheel Tosses Teppo Jutsu

Talk about the AR15 style rifles chambered in 450 Bushmaster.

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Tarheel Tosses Teppo Jutsu

Postby Hoot » Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:58 am

This post is not for Hoot. I did not know how to move a post from the "Hello to all our new members" thread to a new topic, only how to copy it, so I created a thread for it.

For Greg_R

Hello, new here from North central North Carolina. I am an admitted Handihaulic, I am very fond of the Handi Rifle. My favorites are the 300 Blackout AAC Handi Rifle, the 223 Remington, the 280 Remington and the 45/70.

But I cheated. Along the way I fell for the Modern Sporting Rifles. I have built a 300 BLK and a 223 Wylde to compliment my Handi's. There are plans for a 25-45 Sharps, the closest i can come to the 280 Remington in the AR 15 platform, and a 458 SOCOM to compliment my 45/70.

But there is another problem. I have a little deal working on the side with the Ruger American Ranch Rifle. 5.56 and 300 BLK, but I just met their other sister, the 450 Bushmaster, which has led me here for some advice.

You see, now I am questioning my fledgling relationship with the 458 SOCOM. I have little knowledge of the 450 Bushmaster. I know I like the RARR and the reciever I have for the 458 would work just as well with the 450B. The 450B doesn't seem to be as high maintenance as the 458, cases are easier to find, .451/.452 bullets are plentiful, I'm guessing that a standard 230 grain hardball would make a wonderful plinking bullet for the 450B. And it seems like Lil Gun will be a good powder to feed it. That's about all I know.

I'm hoping to learn a lot here. Hoping you folks will help me make up my mind. Should I push the 458 SOCOM to the side? Should I embrace the 450 Bushmaster and make that my next build. Is the RARR chambered for 450B a good thing? I hear it eats scopes. If i need to staybaway from the 450B RARR I'm sure my relationship with the Bushmaster will end, i will go with the SOCOM. What length gas system for the Bushmaster, what twist? Do I even have a choice in twist rates and gas lengths?

Give me an education, help me decide.
Thanks!
Greg
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Re: Tarheel Tosses Teppo Jutsu

Postby Bmt85 » Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:13 pm

I don't own a Ruger, so take it for what it's worth.
I've heard nothing but great reviews about the Ruger rifles. Only thing I personally don't like about them is the 1:16 twist rate. It's completely unneeded. However, it doesn't seem to degrade accuracy. As far as being scope eaters, I don't really see how, it's running the lighter end of big bore bullet weights, and it's case capacity isn't very much compared to other big bores either. Recoil should be about like a 20ga slug gun.

As far as AR's go, the normal twist rate is 1:24, which works with just about all bullets one would run in the 450 bushmaster. Some run 1:20 down to 1:16, again it's unneeded, but still doesn't seem to affect accuracy. Some barrels were offered in a 1:32 twist, which you would want to stay on the low end of bullet weight. As to gas length, carbine works, but can be a bit much, especially if your running a longer barrel (over 16"), mid-length is a better choice, even for 16". Rifle length can be fickle unless running a long barrel (over 20").

That's all I got for now.
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Re: Tarheel Tosses Teppo Jutsu

Postby Top_prop » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:57 pm

Welcome!

I'd assume due to your caliber selection you are running suppressed rigs on your rifles.

I have a 450BM from Bushmaster (upper). I want to run it suppressed with big heavy bullets, and for that application I'd think a faster twist would be needed... so having a twist faster than the standard used by Busmaster may be beneficial there. But I honestly have been so busy with other things I haven't gotten to mess with shooting my rifle suppressed, nor whipping up some super heavy bullet suppressed loads.

As for a .280 Remington performance in an ar15 ... I love my .280 bolt gun. So I understand.... but looking at the available cartridges for the AR plat form, I'd stay away from the sharps: there are other better ones (but yes you'll have to deal with custom mags with them). I built and liked a 6.8 SPC and the mags are easy to find (but my brother's wife wanted it... so I traded the upper to him for a nice cross bow), You could also try the 6.5 grendal, or if you are a hand loader and adventurous even go with a 30 AR type wild cat (basically a 450bm necked down to 30 cal, or what ever you want). Those probably will single stack in something like your standard 450 BM mag if based off of the 450 BM/ .284 Winchester.

Also I think their was a 7mm variant in the works... something like the 7mm Valkerie... 7VAR? or even a 270AR...). .. not sure of their parent case head sizes, but I think they were basically standard .308/30-06 case heads.. so they probably don't single stack and need some magazine creativity... also case head size could be a factor in bolt selection.

YMMV

Tom
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Re: Tarheel Tosses Teppo Jutsu

Postby Greg_R » Wed May 24, 2017 4:40 am

Good morning. Just checking in. Still have not built my big bore AR. I have been convinced that the 450 Bushmaster is the way to go though. Partly because of the RARR, dang things are still allocated though. Partly because of cost. The Bushmaster is going to be cheaper to shoot, even reloading is cheaper.

I will not lie. I still think the 458 SOCOM is the better of the two, if for no other reason than I like the bottleneck case better. That's the reason I have not built yet, along with the fact that I have not been able to get a RARR in 450 Bushmaster yet. I really want a second rifle in a different form factor for the same cartridge.

To answer a few of the questions asked. No, I do not shoot suppressed. If I were to, I would get a stamp and SBR the 300 BLK. Notice I said "a" stamp. I'm waiting for the silencer to be dropped off the list with the passage of the hearing protection act. Optimistic ain't I! ;)

The 24x45 Sharps is a done deal. Love it! Except for I can not get it to shoot 1 moa. It's about a 1 1/4 moa rifle. Close, but no cigar. Still working on it. :(

Still, it's no 280 Remington. I have decided I need a LR-308 rifle to get close. I thought .260 Rem, 6mm CM, 6.5 CM, 7/08. But in the end I bought a barrel for the 308 Winchester. 20" DMR contour. Why? First I like the 308, my old Savage tactical is chambered in it, so I already gave my "alternate" rifle, along with my FR8 Mauser or the "Poor Man's Scout Rifle" as it often gets referred to by a few friends. Second, AR Stoner components were pretty nicely priced. I bought all the LR-308 parts they had. I basically just need an upper, lower, and handguard to complete the build. My beanfield stand overlooks just a bit better than 600 yards. The 308 will be capable.

I thought about the 6.5 Grendel. I like the cartridge, but it has some drawbacks in the AR platform. I built a AR in 7.62x39. finally got it to function pretty good. And while I haven't broken a bolt yet, I keep waiting for it to break. The Grendel based on the same case head size reportedly has the same feeding and breaking problem as does the parent case. Still, I keep looking sideways at the 24 inch 6.5 Grendel barrel AR Stoner advertises. Might just give it a try! :D
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Re: Tarheel Tosses Teppo Jutsu

Postby commander faschisto » Wed May 24, 2017 7:53 am

TexasSheepDawg on the forum here has been running an AR platform 6.5 Grendel for some time now...you might message him to get further insight...from what I know of it, TSD really likes the 6.5G that he has.
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Re: Tarheel Tosses Teppo Jutsu

Postby plant_one » Wed May 24, 2017 9:50 am

to get into 280 Remington in the AR platform you'll probably have to build something based of the Noreen bn36.

http://onlylongrange.com/bn36-long-rang ... -06-30-06/

its the only long action AR platform rifle I'm aware of that's a 30-06 based parent case action.


If you were going to take on a project like that, I'd get ahold of xcaliber to talk about a barrel blank if Noreen wasn't interested in doing a custom for you. They're known for making all kinds of stilly stuff for the MSR platform in both ar-15 and ar-10 varients so I'm sure they could whip up something to meet your needs for a 280 barrel.

Noreen does sell just a barrel extension, as well as upper/lower combo's so you'd have something to base a build off of and then just need a smith to chamber it for you if you have to go that route. I dunno how much they'd charge, but since they already product the platform in 30-06, 270, 25-06, 300 win mag and 7mm rem mag - it cant hurt drop them an email.


otherwise I really don't know how you're gonna get that kind of punch out of a MSR without jumping all the way up to something like a NEMO omen which is the only other player in long action MSR's that ive seen around the interweb to date. There may be other niche mfg's out there, I just haven't run across them.


HTH.
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Re: Tarheel Tosses Teppo Jutsu

Postby Hoot » Wed May 24, 2017 2:06 pm

Looking at Wikipedia, it appears a 284 Winchester might be an easier fit to an AR10 platform, without surrendering much in the way of power. Both calibers toss a 140gr bullet in the 2800's fps range. The 284 Win has an OAL of 2.8 inches vs the 280 Rem at 3.3 inches.

Just a thought...

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Re: Tarheel Tosses Teppo Jutsu

Postby drt4lfe » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:36 am

the 25/45 Sharps is a very good Deer round...Buddy bought one of the complete uppers and it easily shoots sub MOA with Sharps factory ammo.....and drops Deer.....his first kill with it was at about 175 yards...a nice clean pass through and Deer made it about 30 yards...
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Re: Tarheel Tosses Teppo Jutsu

Postby drt4lfe » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:39 am

I also listened to a radio broadcast of the Hearing Protection Act.....Rep. who introduced the Bill said if you want a Suppressor you should go ahead and do the current ATF route....Bill could take 2 years to get to full vote and may not pass, NO guarantee of any kind it will....I have two Suppressors and they are worth every penny even with the current red tape....
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