Factory ammo on deer?

Talk about the AR15 style rifles chambered in 450 Bushmaster.

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Re: Factory ammo on deer?

Postby bushmeister » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:00 pm

I've shot at least a dozen whitetails here in GA with the factory FTX. Most just did a backflip and died, a few have run less than 50 yards. My problem with the bullet is when you hit bone it falls apart and you have several exit wounds and meat damage that I wouldn't have if there was better bonding of the lead to the jacket. I've never had one run off though. Expansion has never been a problem. All shots less than 150 yds.
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Re: Factory ammo on deer?

Postby AboveTheBest » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:26 pm

We gave up on the FTX’s after not recovering a few and getting pass-thru’s. They might be great on bears or hogs, but we didn’t like them so well on deer.

Now we load up Non-Magnum XTP 250’s and have had nothing go more than 20-yards, most just drop instantly.
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Re: Factory ammo on deer?

Postby 303hunter » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:26 am

AboveTheBest wrote:We gave up on the FTX’s after not recovering a few and getting pass-thru’s. They might be great on bears or hogs, but we didn’t like them so well on deer.

Now we load up Non-Magnum XTP 250’s and have had nothing go more than 20-yards, most just drop instantly.


Have you recovered any bullets? I'd be interested in seeing one. Always looking for alternative bullets.
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Re: Factory ammo on deer?

Postby plant_one » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:30 pm

AboveTheBest wrote:We gave up on the FTX’s after not recovering a few and getting pass-thru’s. They might be great on bears or hogs, but we didn’t like them so well on deer.

Now we load up Non-Magnum XTP 250’s and have had nothing go more than 20-yards, most just drop instantly.



is that bullet actually getting out the back side ? or just kabooming inside and turning their whole world to jelly between the ribs?

what speed are you running this at?

i ask because the (non mag) 250gr XTP (#45200) hornady specifically says that is "not for above 45 colt pressures" and that typical blackout speeds put it outside its intended velocity window for terminal performance - at least inside the 200 yd mark (or real close to that anyway)

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Re: Factory ammo on deer?

Postby fox400 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:51 am

My personal experience with the factory ammo has been absolutely terrible!! Between my father and I, we have killed over half a dozen Michigan whitetails with the factory FTX bullet and we'll never use them again. My boss also had very similar experiences, as have a lot of friends of mine that use the factory rounds. Deer shot from 40 yards out to 144 yards....bullets did not pass through, very little blood trail, and extreme fragmentation. My boss drilled a buck at 40 yards, I saw the pictures after he skinned it, it was a picture perfect shot. About 2 inches behind the should, mid to slightly below mid body in height, broadside shot. The bullet exited...twice. One piece come out about 2 inches back from the entrance hole, the other piece exited back towards the front of the hind quarter and tore a 4" gash in the stomach on its way out. It killed the deer, but that's not the kind of performance he was expecting and field dressing the deer was not a very pleasant experience.

As for my father and I....we need expansion, not fragmentation and we need the bullet to pass through the animal for an optimal blood trail where we hunt. The deer we have killed with the factory ammo all died, but no exit wound, for us, and finding pieces of bullet all over inside of the deer is not the kind of thing we want out of bullet performance. In my opinion...the FTX bullet would be great for coyotes, but not for deer. I've since started reloading and my father and I have had excellent success with my hand loads.
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Re: Factory ammo on deer?

Postby Siringo » Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:53 am

I'm going to preface my post by stating that I do not shoot deer in the head, neck or spine. All deer I have ever shot have been thru the chest cavity. With that being stated, I have killed 5 Minnesota deer with the factory ammunition. None of them went more than 50 yards after being shot. They either run out of blood or air. All shots exited. My experience with the reaction of the deer is different than when shot with a high velocity caliber. With the 450B they sorta tip a little. Versus a high velocity there is no movement other than flight. If the velocity is high enough, the deer's nervous system will go into shock and they will drop on the spot to bleed out. I have not had this experience with the 450B or with the 45-70, which is typical of big bores.

I am on the fence about the 250 (or anything lighter) because of the marginal, if not low, sectional density. Comparing the internal damage done by a 400 grain 45-70 at mild velocities versus the 250 grain 450B reveals to me the damage to tissue is deeper with the 45-70 than the 450B.

With Federal coming out with 300's, maybe they are listening to the iffy reports on the 250's. Also, once the 250 has left the magic AR platform, it is no different than shot from a shot gun or Muzzle-loader. Velocities are similar. I peruse the muzzle loader boards quite a bit and it seems the 300's have a better following.
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Re: Factory ammo on deer?

Postby Thom28 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:41 pm

fox400 wrote:My personal experience with the factory ammo has been absolutely terrible!! Between my father and I, we have killed over half a dozen Michigan whitetails with the factory FTX bullet and we'll never use them again. My boss also had very similar experiences, as have a lot of friends of mine that use the factory rounds. Deer shot from 40 yards out to 144 yards....bullets did not pass through, very little blood trail, and extreme fragmentation. My boss drilled a buck at 40 yards, I saw the pictures after he skinned it, it was a picture perfect shot. About 2 inches behind the should, mid to slightly below mid body in height, broadside shot. The bullet exited...twice. One piece come out about 2 inches back from the entrance hole, the other piece exited back towards the front of the hind quarter and tore a 4" gash in the stomach on its way out. It killed the deer, but that's not the kind of performance he was expecting and field dressing the deer was not a very pleasant experience.

As for my father and I....we need expansion, not fragmentation and we need the bullet to pass through the animal for an optimal blood trail where we hunt. The deer we have killed with the factory ammo all died, but no exit wound, for us, and finding pieces of bullet all over inside of the deer is not the kind of thing we want out of bullet performance. In my opinion...the FTX bullet would be great for coyotes, but not for deer. I've since started reloading and my father and I have had excellent success with my hand loads.


What bullets are you using in your reloads?
I've had results similar to yours when using the factory ammo. I think Hornady would be smart to come out with a bonded bullet in 45 caliber.
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Re: Factory ammo on deer?

Postby fox400 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:29 am

Thom28 wrote:
fox400 wrote:My personal experience with the factory ammo has been absolutely terrible!! Between my father and I, we have killed over half a dozen Michigan whitetails with the factory FTX bullet and we'll never use them again. My boss also had very similar experiences, as have a lot of friends of mine that use the factory rounds. Deer shot from 40 yards out to 144 yards....bullets did not pass through, very little blood trail, and extreme fragmentation. My boss drilled a buck at 40 yards, I saw the pictures after he skinned it, it was a picture perfect shot. About 2 inches behind the should, mid to slightly below mid body in height, broadside shot. The bullet exited...twice. One piece come out about 2 inches back from the entrance hole, the other piece exited back towards the front of the hind quarter and tore a 4" gash in the stomach on its way out. It killed the deer, but that's not the kind of performance he was expecting and field dressing the deer was not a very pleasant experience.

As for my father and I....we need expansion, not fragmentation and we need the bullet to pass through the animal for an optimal blood trail where we hunt. The deer we have killed with the factory ammo all died, but no exit wound, for us, and finding pieces of bullet all over inside of the deer is not the kind of thing we want out of bullet performance. In my opinion...the FTX bullet would be great for coyotes, but not for deer. I've since started reloading and my father and I have had excellent success with my hand loads.


What bullets are you using in your reloads?
I've had results similar to yours when using the factory ammo. I think Hornady would be smart to come out with a bonded bullet in 45 caliber.


I'm using the Barnes 275 grain TSX in my reloads. Getting around 2150fps and they are actually shooting just a touch flatter than the factory FTX out to 200 yards. I've shot them much faster than that, but the powder charge yielding 2150fps was the most accurate out of my AR. My next experiment will be loading the 250 grain TE-Z flat based muzzleloader bullet. I doubt I'll switch from the TSX, but I like to try new loads for no reason other than to try them.lol
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Re: Factory ammo on deer?

Postby Hoot » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:34 am

fox400 wrote:,,,snip,,, I doubt I'll switch from the TSX, but I like to try new loads for no reason other than to try them.lol


You're in good company here Fox. ;)

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Re: Factory ammo on deer?

Postby fox400 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:45 am

Hoot wrote:
fox400 wrote:,,,snip,,, I doubt I'll switch from the TSX, but I like to try new loads for no reason other than to try them.lol


You're in good company here Fox. ;)

Hoot


Lol....If I ever get caught up on testing loads for my 223 and my Grendel...I'll be anxious to see how the TE-Z preforms. Coyote season and cold temps have curbed load testing for the time being. Range days at or well below 20 degrees can be somewhat unpleasant.
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