I love my Thumper but

Talk about the AR15 style rifles chambered in 450 Bushmaster.

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I love my Thumper but

Postby PyroRobby » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:30 pm

It didn't do what I thought it would do, the 198 pound feral hog didn't fall in place. Maybe I didn't clip the heart and lungs, maybe I expected too much. Would a 275 grain or 300 grain have done better. How fast should a 198 pound hog bleed out. If I wanted to drop it in place should I have just gone for a headshot. If only can expect that from a headshot then why a 450b, I can do that with a lessor bullet and I don't really try to shoot through brush. Now, on the other hand ... if i am in the brush and suddenly am getting charged by a large mean hog or bear or bigfoot or whatever, clipping through the shrubs makes sense with the 450b. Thing is, if a 198 pound Hog will run off 50 yards before bleeding out and falling over, how can I expect to stop anything in it's tracks unless I do a mag dump and get a critical central nervous system hit in the process.

Likely a lot here I don't know. My original thinking was I would be doing a precise hit to behind the ear at 75-150 yards. Reality was 40 yard baited hunt for the first application. Shot 2 hogs at different times, both ran off, hit maybe not in the heart, maybe in the liver. The scope on my rifle is due to my eyesight and it has the ability to focus, plus it was the 1st one that I tried and liked. Likely low profile iron site will go on this rifle if I continue to brush hunt.

Anyway,

1) hog hunting and not have to track them because they get shot and drop in place, will the 450B normally deliver that kind of trauma to a large hog that has been heart-shot? or would that be an exception and less likely common.
2) 250 grain .452 = .175 Sectional density, this seems weak for deer and hogs, (yes/no)?

(pictures and babble wondering why the hog didn't drop in place)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5bahfDN26A
Gun control is using both hands, good gun control is hitting your target precisely.
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Re: I love my Thumper but

Postby Al in Mi » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:21 pm

Factory ammo?
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Re: I love my Thumper but

Postby PyroRobby » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:37 pm

Yes, Hornady Black 250 grain
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Re: I love my Thumper but

Postby plant_one » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:54 pm

barring a CNS hit - central nervous system - most guns wont do dead right there shots when you put one through the heart/lung vitals area. deer, pigs, elk, etc etc.. 50 yds and falls over dead is for the most part right about what you can expect from a well placed heart/lung shot.


now if you're using a hyper velocity bullet that does a lot of shockwave damage on its way thru - then yes you're more likely to get a bang-flop scenario without a direct CNS.... however the shockwave may well do CNS damage, indirectly. a 300 ultra whiz-bang magnum is going to have a massive ammount of shock damage on impact at 100 yds or less compared to even a larger bore smashem-type caliber like the 450 is.


flesh is elastic, and its going to stretch and spring back. this is why you see discussions about temporary and permanent wound cavities . so the more hydro-static shock you impart, the more likely that your temporary wound cavity will mostly resemble your permanent wound cavity. with traditional expanding bullets, overcoming that elastic barrier happens somewhere just north of 2000 fps impact velocity in two legged critters.... some of the 4 legged cousins likely are going to take more.

using a specialty bullet you can change how that response happens... but those get pricey

https://www.lehighdefense.com/index.php ... tor-bullet

its also sold as loaded ammo through underwood
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10194 ... -box-of-20



this discussion is about pistol testing, personal defense and the usage of ballistic gel testing... but they touch on some very key things that we have hunters need to consider when metal meets meat.
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/why- ... gel-works/



the other thing you caught on was changing your point of impact. which is why in your "charging scenerio" a mag dump can be so effective - you're changing your point of impact from heart/lung vitals to smashing through a bunch of CNS stuff - head, spine, brain, etc - as well as staring down the major front ambulatory area of both front shoulders. which is why when you get into that zone those 250 ftx will suit your needs just fine.

i'm sure someone with some actual pig experience with the 450 may come along and give you some more specific advice to your quarry, but when discussing how critters die - for the most part most of them follow the same set of rules :)

hth
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Re: I love my Thumper but

Postby Bmt85 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:56 pm

Factory ammo (250gr FTX) can be iffy. Some have had great results, others, not so much. Heard more then a couple times about jacket seperation, no blood trail, lost animals, etc. I, personally, have only used the 200 XPB and 275 TSX so far to take game, none of which were hog's. The 200 XPB was used on a small whitetail, ended up crawling about 10yds. Used the 275TSX on a small cow elk, little blood trail and ran about 50yds. Also used the 275 TSX on a black bear, rolled around on the ground for maybe 10-15ft. it had a cue ball size exit wound, but started to suck the lung out, so not a lot of blood.

When taking an animal, anything can happen. I've seen deer hit with 30/06 and 12 Ga slugs, taking out lungs and hearts, yet still run 100+ yds. Bigger bullets and more energy help put animals down faster, but don't necessarily mean drop right there, especially when adrenaline is involved. Unless a head or spine shot.

Saw plant_one posted just before me, didn't feel like changing it. lol
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Re: I love my Thumper but

Postby Al in Mi » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:20 pm

PyroRobby wrote:Yes, Hornady Black 250 grain


I am not a ftx fan for anything sans punching paper.

The 275gr Barnes would be my personel pick, federal has a new fusion load that should be a winner too.
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Re: I love my Thumper but

Postby PyroRobby » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:36 pm

Cool, thanks everybody for the feedback. I shall try the 275 grain next. Going to go Hog hunting again maybe in a month or so, show-and-tell to follow.
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Re: I love my Thumper but

Postby Hoot » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:50 am

With CX2 and larger game, it takes a Central Nervous System hit to drop them in their tracks. Shock is the second fastest disabler and ultimately hemorrhage takes them.

You can make a surgical incision in a hogs thoracic cavity, gently reach in, grasp its heart and yank it out and they will run off out of sight to die. Wild animals eat our lunch in terms of the will to live.
Ask Texas Sheepdog. He spent years as a Paramedic. Hemorrhage is a lot slower than you think. I almost bled out when I was a senior in high school. I'm still here.

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Re: I love my Thumper but

Postby gmstack » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:48 am

I have been hunting for 60yrs and 50yd recovery is not at all bad for any big game animal if fact the opposite is true. guy
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Re: I love my Thumper but

Postby Robert FL » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:59 am

I have only shot a half dozen hogs with my 450 BM. 2 dropped at the shot, one was shot thru neck spine at 50 yards and other into front area of shoulder with exit behind shoulder. The other 4 did run 30-50 yards but left plenty of blood on ground.. I took a doe at 15 yards, shot lungs and heart, heart was shredded..this deer still ran 40 yards after that hit, like your self I was surprised.. I shot a 12 point last year, neck shot dropped him right there. I have shot hogs behind the shoulder with a bow and they went down right there kicking and squealing.. They all react differently I guess. Head shots and CNS shots drop the biggest and best of them.. I have used 240 grain Buffalo Brand Hollow point bullets and 250 grain black box 250 FTX Hornadys, looking to try some of the new federal offerings. Everything I have shot were complete pass thru with lots of internal damage.
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