My shoulder hurts

Talk about the AR15 style rifles chambered in 450 Bushmaster.

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My shoulder hurts

Postby thebrassnuckles » Sun May 30, 2010 10:41 pm

So, I finally got my 450 out today.

I put around 40 rounds down the tube sighting it in.... :shock:

Yeah... with my Iron sights at about 50 yards it gets about 3-4" groups with factory Hornady ammo... what the hell is goin on here?

I am not that bad of a shot... With my Larue Tactical upper i can put all the rounds into about 1 ragged hole at that range.

We backed up to 75, the groups opened up, we went up to 25 yards and the groups closed up to 1-2" is this gun only good to 50 yards or what? I was resting my free float tube on a sandbag, ensuring that nothing was touching the barrel on every shot, sight picture, exhale, smooth triggerpull, BANG, recoil, follow through, release trigger, and start all over again. walk to the target, and.... I am Dissapoint :oops:

at 100 yards it was grouping(if you can call it a group) around 10-15 inches :o what the hell?

any advice, tips, pointers?
I am going to be working up a lead free load this week so i can hunt with this thing, maybe my gun just doesn't like factory ammo... :roll:

I hope thats the case.
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Re: My shoulder hurts

Postby 2zero6 » Sun May 30, 2010 11:19 pm

Iron sights loose?
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. " - Benjamin Franklin."
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Re: My shoulder hurts

Postby YoteAddict » Sun May 30, 2010 11:22 pm

thebrassnuckles wrote:... with my Iron sights...what the hell?

any advice, tips, pointers?


Put a scope on it that you know is good to go and re-test the gun. That's what I'd do before I'd be sure how well/bad it shoots.
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Re: My shoulder hurts

Postby Hoot » Mon May 31, 2010 6:47 am

thebrassnuckles wrote:So, I finally got my 450 out today...snip...at 100 yards it was grouping(if you can call it a group) around 10-15 inches :o what the hell?...snip


Here's a few images from this past Saturday. This is what mine does after I got used to shooting an AR for accuracy. Let me premise that. I have multiple bolt guns that I have to try real hard to make shoot poor groups. For me, the AR is just the opposite. I have to try real hard to make it shoot good groups. Just the nature of the beast.

Hoot's pick: 225gr FTX ($.26 each), 38gr Lil Gun, Remington 7 1/2 Primer, 2.12" COL, taper crimp only

Gets you these 5 shots at 100 yards going 2275fps
Image

Same but 39gr Lil Gun

Gets you these 5 shots at 100 yards going 2300fps :
Image

39gr Lil Gun and WSR primer, all else the same:

Image

I have a growing stack of images like these of what to expect at 100 yards. 40 Rounds does not have to make your shoulder hurt. There are options out there to mitigate recoil. A scope is a must, at least for load development. Then, you can go back to iron sights, holosight, red dot, etc. once you've found what works for you.

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Re: My shoulder hurts

Postby slash2 » Mon May 31, 2010 8:03 am

I would suggest that before you try working up a hunting load, especially with expensive copper bullets, first figure out what's giving you the bad groups . If you can't get good results with the factory ammo then you have a problem that hand loads won't correct.
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Re: My shoulder hurts

Postby thebrassnuckles » Mon May 31, 2010 8:37 am

I will try putting a scope on it and shooting it again this next weekend maybe.

For irons, I am running a triangle FSB and a magpul MBUS on the rear. I'm pretty sure they are both tight. It was consistently shooting around the point of aim.

I can shoot all day standing up but when i'm on a bench or prone I cant get the butt into my shoulder pocket, so it sits up against my boney shoulders ;)

I still have 2 boxes of factory ammo I can use to zero it.. I can't hunt with it so it is basically useless, aside from HD :twisted:

Thanks for the advice guys.. keep it comin.
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Re: My shoulder hurts

Postby oldmanjeffers » Mon May 31, 2010 9:41 am

TBN, I have encountered the same thing (hard hitting at the bench), But that rings true for all big bore rifles IMO, Standing with good support helps me get longer shooting sessions with both the 450 and 45-70 and closer replicates what I'd be doing in the field. I am also adding a break from Ross, See his info under "breaks" here on another forum, The price is awesome and he is a great guy to talk with. I shot my first strings with a aimpoint and got less then desirable groups (plenty good for an ethical kill) but this is my first AR and their's a learning curve I'm sure. I replaced the aim point with an old Bushnell banner I had laying around, I agree the scope is probably the way to go.

NICE shooting Slash! Thats impressive.
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Re: My shoulder hurts

Postby Hoot » Mon May 31, 2010 11:58 am

Get a real muzzle brake. That Izzy that comes with the rifle is at best a poor flash hider. A fellow on this site sells a very effective and well made one for about $60. Incredible deal!

Get the Limbsaver slip-on recoil pad. Doesn't look like your Grandpa's recoil pad and does wonders for recoil.

Get Gunnut's recoil mitigating A2 stock. I made mine, but I have an extensive shop at home to putz in.

Add a weight to the bolt (I'm working on a how-to article) or go with a heavier buffer. The stock buffer spring is fine.

Do those four and you can hunker down on the benchrest all day with no, repeat no discomfort. I've had surgery on my shooting shoulder from shooting trap and skeet leagues for too many years and hate intense recoil. With those 4 options, I have shot 200 450b rounds in one setting and felt like shooting 200 more.

There's no disgrace in not wanting the sh!t kicked out of you.

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Re: My shoulder hurts

Postby gunnut » Mon May 31, 2010 1:50 pm

I agree! I don't like the recoil at all. Even if it doesn't bother you, It slows your follow up shots! The Izzy brake works the best to reduce muzzel climb by 150% but doesn't do much for recoil. The military bolt carriers weigh about 2oz more and would be great to add more weight to. The H3 buffers weigh 5.25oz about 2oz more than standard. So, You would be adding 4oz or more to the AR action that already reduces the recoil by as much as 30%. Add a 1" Edwards adjustable reduces and you get another 23% reduction, the Dead Mules do about 22% after a break in. My A2 Recoil-less stock will accept both. Add a limb saver recoil pad and you've got one quick pointing, sweet shooting, hard hiting, carbine!
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Re: My shoulder hurts

Postby oldmanjeffers » Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:31 pm

I used the limbsaver Tactical Snap-on Recoil pad Part # 10019 today and IT WORKS!!! I use a 6 position collapsible stock and this thing fits great.

I shot about 60 rounds last weekend in the "stock" configuration and was pretty sore, Today with the Limbsaver and a Ross brake I shot 50+ and have zero sourness, I do feel like I've been shooting all day but no aches or pains.

I highly recommend the Limbsaver and for about the cost of a box of ammo, It's worth every penny.

I let a pretty frail 15 year old kid shoot my BM today, It was his first time shooting the 450, I asked what he though of the recoil, He said it was like shooting his 308, "maybe a little less". I took a look thought the spotting scope and told him to take a gander, Man, The smile on that kids face....Priceless!!!
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