Savage Wolverine 110 Issues

I know of one so far, let's see if more show up.

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Savage Wolverine 110 Issues

Postby melectrok » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:05 pm

Hello, I am new member here. I noticed one thread talking about something similar and I commented on it, however I did not see much else in my searching. I need to get a few opinions about what I should do. Are this issues common with this gun or has anyone had them and resolved them? Please comment to help.

I purchased a savage 110 wolverine Aug of 2018. I had no firing issue and excellent groupings at 200 yards with Hornady Black Ammo. However was getting sooting on almost every round. I want to say close to half where sooting all the way to the ejector groove and on the bolt face. Right or wrong, at the time I was under the impression that it was a chambering issue being machining or head space. I sent the gun into Savage. After about 6 months (which means I missed deer season with it) they told my they could not figure out the issue. They sent me a brand new to replace it. I finally got the new gun spring of 2019. Took about 8 shots and no sooting (maybe just the very end). So I put my scope back on and was sighting it in, after about 4 shots, i started getting many many misfires, light primer hits. So I sent it back again. 2 months later i got it back again. Fired a few shots it was fine. Remounted the scope to sight it in and again after 4-6 shots started getting misfires. Light primer hits on each one I shot, about 35% misfires. I contacted them again and they said I send it back. But deer season was less then 2 months away so I took it to a gun smith myself. They did some adjusting and machining on the bolt, and had to pay for this repair. So now I have shot it about 30 times. Good primer hits every-time, except one time light hit missfire. But all the rest look good. However I am getting sooting again, half the time down to the ejector grove. I am also not holding a good grouping like i did on the first gun. About 2-3 inches at 200 yards. I am not sure at this point. On a bolt gun does this mean major issues? Are the adjustments for misfires and sooting working against each other? Is this ammo issues? Should I just continue to send this back in again and again until I feel the issues are gone? Have them Fixed? Or is all this common and its not an issue? Help please.

I have searched for sooting and found one thread, light hits and found zero, poor grouping and found zero. I dont know if that means these are uncommon issues, well known issues, or just me being dumb.

I should also point out that I have tried Remington ammo as well. I did shoot this during phase two before it got the bolt worked on myself. I did not have light primer hits on it, nor did see sooting. However at this time i was not seeing sooting on the hornadys either. However with these rounds I could not hold better then a 2.5inch group at 50 yards. That is as apposed to the 200yrds I have issues now.

Thanks,
Mike
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Re: Savage Wolverine 110 Issues

Postby teddy_d » Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:45 pm

I'm not an owner of a 450 bolt gun.

Imho: 2"-3" group at 200 yards is pretty good for a 450 with off the shelf ammo. Remington has been crappy ammo for the 450. Winchester, Federal, and Hornady (including the new interlock 245 grain) are just fine. Most people can't shoot that at 100 yards unless they have have all sorts of bags, a sled, vises....

Light firing pin strikes have something to do with how the firing pin rides in the bolt. Maybe you have a lubricant issue, maybe its a interference issue with moving parts.

Sooting progressively getting worse after multiple rounds fired.... :?: At this point I wouldn't worry about sooting. After hunting season then send it back ?

It will be interesting to find out what individual or multiple issues are going on With those symptoms.

If its not broke don't try and fix it?
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Re: Savage Wolverine 110 Issues

Postby melectrok » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:23 pm

I dont think its something wrong with the bolt operation, Its been well worked on and lubricated. Possible head space or misalignment. I purchased a new spring for a savage 110 but it came in about 8 coils to long. They said the short action one was only 3 coils shorter. However my gunsmith says this is a new bolt design unlike anything he has seen before. I do not think there is a light strike issue per say anymore, after the final fix I have only had 1. I would say that the sooting does get worse after multiple shots. But not positive. I have purchased some Winchester ammo to try this weekend. I am not sure what the little issues are. I thought someone might help with suggestions on what else.
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Re: Savage Wolverine 110 Issues

Postby Bmt85 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:25 am

The sooting issue is well known. I commented on your post on MIgunowners. One of the members explained it pretty well. A chamber on the looser side, but still within spec, could make the sooting problem worse, but that’s the way it is with this cartridge. I have a Tromix AR barrel that has a chamber on the tighter side that will still get sooting most of the way, or all the way down the case, sometimes. I personally don’t like it either because it means that the case is not grabbing the chamber walls, which means it is inducing more bolt thrust. Not a good thing in an AR. It doesn’t really seem to be an issue, but I handload for the 450B, and don’t run handloads that have more than a little sooting near the case mouth.

Now it does sound like the rifle has issues. It could be an ammo related issue, but I’m leaning more towards the rifle. I don’t know if Savage will look at it after you took it to a gunsmith, but you could try. You should’ve sent it back to them again for the light strikes, let them deal with it.

And honestly, 2-3” groups at 200yds is very acceptable for this cartridge. You will be disappointed if you expect it to be sub-moa. It’s a straight wall cartridge, not as easy to dial in as a bottleneck cartridge, usually it won’t be sub-moa.
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Re: Savage Wolverine 110 Issues

Postby Al in Mi » Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:06 am

Sooting has always been noted on factory ammo as far back as I can remember, even with most handloads on the AR pressure level. If you reload for that bolt gun, you can throttle things up a bit and it all but disappears.

Maybe the guys on the Savage board can help with your light strike issue, or try cleaning the bolt inside and out and looking for burrs and sharp edges.
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Re: Savage Wolverine 110 Issues

Postby melectrok » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:37 am

That is what the gunsmith did, took it apart, adjusted it, and said he removed all the burrs and replaced the spring. I did some more testing this weekend, I only had 1 missfire due to a light strike, however unlike previous times all other strikes looked good, as opposed to even the fired shots looking like light strikes. It is possible the sooting caused 1 case to not seat properly due to debrise. I am guessing I will not have concern about this one unless I have additional light strikes.

I also tried some other ammos. I called Hornady as I am shooting the blacks, and asked them what is diffrence between them and the customs, thinking I might try those. They said the only diffrence in those two ammos is the marketing. So for $9 more you get a fancier Black box apparently. So I didnt try those. But the only misfire I had was with the blacks but rest were good hits. I tried a box of the Winchester, sooting issue was the same no misfires all good hits. Both the Winchester and Hornady gave me sooting at least 50% down the case. About 25% all the way to the ejector groove. I did shoot some Remingtons, I got no sooting at all, the end face of the case was all black but nothing at all down the sides. These also seem to fit tighter. Bolt would drag or catch both loading and unloading as the casing felt tighter. They all fired, however these rounds are very inaccurate in my gun. I think its how the tips are glued on the front in and inconstant pattern. These are slightly slower at the muzzle so i expected to shoot low, but there crazy left and right as well as up and down. As much as 6 inches, so even though they shoot better in the chamber, I dont wish to use these rounds.
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Re: Savage Wolverine 110 Issues

Postby Tripplebeards » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:01 am

I sent my American back to Ruger five times. For $110 upgrade they switched me out to the scout last week and they’re currently building it for me as we speak. They told me a two week turnaround time since they had to build it. Everything rattled loose or fell apart on the gun since I’ve had it but I did push it a little hard with 30 rounds a cast when I first got it so I was probably partially my fault. But every time I send it back to Ruger I got it back within a weeks time so savage in my opinion has horrible customer service that they’re sending you your gun back months at a time. I should’ve did the same thing as you should have did with yours, traded it off as soon as it came back the first time or never bought it to begin with. I was thinking about trying to Savage if Ruger wouldn’t have traded me out and after reading this post I’m glad I didn’t. Most the Rutgers at least shoot tighter. MOA or tighter with most of their guns out of the box. I’m shocked that savages shoot 2 to 3 MOA. I had my gun shooting 1.1” at 100 yards with Cast. BTW I went through five magazines and I still couldn’t reliably cycle cast smoothly. The only bullet that will cycle smoothly in that gun and what it was designed for is the FTX round its pointy so there’s a lot more room for error when feeding into the chamber. The magazines were made to long is it based on the 308 action which causes the tail end of the casing to drop down in the big gap making whatever bullet other than the FTX (big vmax style) style jam on top of the rear of the chamber. Hopefully the controlled feed with the scout will take care of the issue as it grabs the rear base of the bullet to line it up with the chamber.
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Re: Savage Wolverine 110 Issues

Postby melectrok » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:42 pm

Tripplebeards, basically the ruger kept falling apart? You really didnt have any of the misfiring or sooting issues I had?
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Re: Savage Wolverine 110 Issues

Postby Tripplebeards » Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:25 pm

No no misfires or sooting issues whatsoever. The gun kept vibrating apart after so many shots. I found the scope rail base screws finger loose. I torqued them with my wheeler and shot it again. They came loose after a few shots again along with the trigger pin holes hogged out. I ended up acraglassing my scope base to my action but never did get a chance to try it out because Ruger replaced my gun with a scout that I’m not waiting for. My trigger rattled loose Along with the bolts stop pin as it fell out. Also the magazines were falling out every couple of shots because everything loosened up and I wasn’t aware of it. The extractor stopped extracting shells as well. Ruger sent a new extractor and it still didn’t fix the problem they figured the hole but the spring one in was Hondo sounds like it’s pretty common if you Google it. Ruger replaced everything on my gun except for the stock, action and bolt while I had it in the two years time from buying it new. They told me if I kept the gun they would have to replace the action in the bolt so the only thing that would’ve been replaced on my gun would’ve been the stock. The barrel and brake were replaced right off the bat because when I bought it I didn’t have my reading glasses with me and there was a bunch of blue in spots missing from it so I got sent in for replacement. The gun has been back to Ruger five times now for repairs. I asked Ruger if they would replace the gun this time which I also asked last time and they didn’t. They let me trade for the gun scout model for 110 bucks out-of-pocket for all my hassle. So Ruger did take care of me in the long run it was just a painful two year process. Part of it was probably my fault I worked up some cast loads all the way to 460 Smith and Wesson velocities. H110 from 35.5 grains to 40 grains shooting three shot groups in Half grain increments. I had zero signs of casing pressure and malfunction. I then took it out a week or two later and started doing the ladder Test with lil gun. I was near max book load with it and wrecked my optic is everything was so loose it slid back and cut a hole in the bell. That’s what I went through and figured everything out and tightened it down and saw that my trigger group was dangerously loose so it had to be sent in again to get that replaced. I had Ruger check the scope base because it kept coming loose and I told him that maybe my action wasn’t trued. They shot it after they replaced the trigger housing and said that it was perfectly fine... When I received it back the scope base were finger loose again. It went back for a bolt pin, it went back for the extractor, and I can’t remember what else I sent it back in for at the time. I tried to mentally block that headache out. I have two safes full of guns and I’ve never had so many issues with one firearm in my entire life. I probably put 300 rounds through it and I was told Ruger the gun was not made for target shooting as it won’t hold up. If they would’ve told me that before I bought it I would never purchased one. Imo they are cheap, mass produced, disposable guns that shoot very well. Ruger told me they were designed for the average person who bought one and put a half a box of ammo through it decided in and only shot it a couple times every year for deer hunting maybe putting 4 to 5 boxes through it in their entire lifetime. I’m sure if I was like everybody else and didn’t reload and shoot cast and bought two boxes of factory ammo and put a scope on it and sighted in with a few rounds i’ve never shot it except for opening day once or twice I’d probably be happy with it and it wouldn’t of fallen apart.lol i’d like to know what kind of metal they use For their actions. Whatever it is it’s way too soft. The only American I would never buy again is the rimfire. I own one and a 22 WMR and it shoots .3 inch groups at 100 yards. The rimfire will never recoil enough to make that gun fall apart and they use the 1022 magazines not the goofy plastic junk that they put in the American Center fires. I have five or six of those magazines laying around here that Ruger kept sending me because they wouldn’t feed and kept falling out. It’s too bad when this gun was designed the only ammunition that was Available was FTX “pointed” type bullets. I have tried pistol bullets I have tried blonde cast bullets and nothing will properly cycle in that gun. It will end up jamming and you have to work the boat back to her three times to get it to feed. I even polish the inside of the chamber and it didn’t help. If you watch some of the videos on YouTube there are guys trying to shoot 300 grain federals that look like a hornet DXTP around and they’re all having the same issue jamming and working the bolt back-and-forth. I’m hoping the scout with a controlled feed will help feeding those blunt type bullets a little better. The American not having a controlled feed pushes the round forward and then it drops in the big hole in front of the magazine kicking the ammunition up to high and jamming on the top of the rear chamber. It’s not an issue with an FTX round because it’s a real narrow pointed tip... Any other bullet than a “ballistic tip type” forget it. I wouldn’t trust my life on it if something with tooth or claws came running in. Apparently the AARs have it figured out because I know a lot of people that shoot them and have zero issues with pistol tape ammo and most cast boolits. The problem is you just are not going to reap the benefits with an AR as you have to keep your ammunition at moderate speeds and not see where the 450 bushmaster really shines. On the positive side it was a very accurate shooting gun. My best group with cast came from a 300 Grain lee flat nose powder coated and gas check casted by yours truly. It was about five grain over max at 35.5 g of H110 loaded at 2.035”. I ran it out of my chronograph in an average 2075 ft./s. After the 2nd time I sent the gun to Ruger it came back and then it mysteriously wouldnt feed and would jam because. They sent me a replacement magazine on the gun and it took me a while to figure out what was going on. They sent me five or six magazines and everyone came with a different looking feed ramp and plastic burrs all over them. I never could get that 300 gr lee to reliably cycle after that.

It’s too bad because I really liked The coolness factor of how that little gun Looked, handled, and how light it was. I just wouldn’t trust it. It’s just a mass produced cheap price leader with a lot of non-quality parts. It’s too bad I kind of blame us, the consumer, for causing the gun manufacturers to go this way and then we complain about them. To be honest I would’ve never bought this gun if they wouldn’t have the guns going out to begin with as I would have went the expensive route. I just bought a Ruger 77/44 a month or two earlier brand new...and paid twice as much as the American for it and liked the quality action and I was hoping Ruger would have made a 450 bushmaster in a Hawkeye action as well but instead they went the cheapy American route and came up with the scout about a year later. So when I bought my American At the time it was the only production bolt action option out there as I didn’t want an AR. I never took it out hunting once because every time I went to the range something broke on it. I believe it’s just that caliber that should not be chambered in the American as it’s not going to hold up long term. I see a trend of a lot of these guns getting traded in, in the near future, and they’re not gonna be worth anything because of how cheaply they are manufactured with the cheap ally,plastic magazine, and stock set. I believe the recoil (even with a brake) is too much for that gun. I can handle the recoil the gun just cant. It feels like a squirt gun or a Nerf gun and feels about as flimsy as one. Imo Ruger needs to recall all of them and start casting the actions and the rest of the gun in a stronger metal alloy. I have to give Ruger customer service a thumbs up because every time I called them they would send me parts without any questions and offer to have my gun sent back in for repair at no charge. It’s just a massive inconvenience. I swear Ruger had my gun more than I did. The second to last time they did charge me for shipping because the gun was two years old... And then missed the extractor and bolt stop pin issues while it was there for service.... And I just had to send it back again. Ridiculous. I found out if you don’t ask them to address an issue they won’t look you firearm Completely over and try to find any other existing issues. You have to be a gunsmith to own a Ruger...or should I say an American as I replaced the first extractor and bolt pin set they sent me but both pin hole cavities were still way too loose and didn’t fix the issues so Ruger requested it back in for repair again. I’m getting a headache typing all this and thinking about it again. The bottom line is you get what you pay for.
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