Another Bolt Rifle under Construction

[Jim in Houston]

I met a guide while I was fishing in Alaska who had taken a black bear with a 223. Had to use a second shot to finish it off. I suppose this is possible (I believe his story), but I think it was inadvisable to use such a small caliber on a bear.

[dogsniper]

When you do that, I'd encourage you to contact my Buddy Dave (http://www.mansonreamers.com - He built my first reamer and builds them for Bushy or at least he did, not sure who does now), and mention my name..

..t

Dave Manson is who I have spoken with about the reamer and go/no go gauges. McGowen is who is going to make the "pre fit" savage barrels for us. I do have a question, and I am hoping someone will have a good response to it.

McGowen offers there .45 barrel (.451) in several different twist rates. I brought this topic up when I first considered this project because the only barrel I could find at THAT time would have a 1:16" twist. McGowen offers 1:22, 1:24, and I think one other...maybe a 1:20?? Anyway, I know standard Bushmaster is 1:24...considering I will be handloading, so different bullet selections will be available, should I stick with the 1:24, or go a LITTLE faster in case I use longer bullets??

Thanks again,

[wildcatter]

When you do that, I'd encourage you to contact my Buddy Dave (http://www.mansonreamers.com - He built my first reamer and builds them for Bushy or at least he did, not sure who does now), and mention my name..

..t

Dave Manson is who I have spoken with about the reamer and go/no go gauges. McGowen is who is going to make the "pre fit" savage barrels for us. I do have a question, and I am hoping someone will have a good response to it.

McGowen offers there .45 barrel (.451) in several different twist rates. I brought this topic up when I first considered this project because the only barrel I could find at THAT time would have a 1:16" twist. McGowen offers 1:22, 1:24, and I think one other...maybe a 1:20?? Anyway, I know standard Bushmaster is 1:24...considering I will be handloading, so different bullet selections will be available, should I stick with the 1:24, or go a LITTLE faster in case I use longer bullets??

Thanks again,

Good project,

The 24t is the best for over-all performance, over a wide range of bullet types and weights, but, if you were going to use the heavier bullets exclusively, with a dedicated loading, then a faster twist could be in the offing. For instance, if you were never going to shoot bullets lighter then 300gr and the 325's and heavier, were going to be the norm, I'd try the 20-22t barrels, given the speeds and RPM's that these heavies are going to produce. Just keep in mind though, that the performance of the lighter bullets, won't be up to what you're seeing now, in your AR. This is kinda-of-a crap shoot, if you pick a 20t barrel, the 400grainers could be totally great, the 350's might do very well, the 300's fair, and the 250's might become terrible, in the accuracy department.

The Sweet Spot for the 24t, seems to be 24t, with mildly degraded performance with bullets +- of the weight, given the restrictions of the 450b. I've had startling, good results, with 230's, at 3000 fps, with a 45t barrel, but the 350's and heavier, were left wanting, with that twist.

Sorry about muddying the water, but, what you need to do is define your performance envelop, target your chosen bullets, and then a better recommendation could be made..

..t

[commander faschisto]

More words of wisdom from WC!

Hey WC...has Mossberg ever gotten around to shipping their MVP bolt gun to you? Jus' wonnerin'...

[Hoot]

Dave Manson is who I have spoken with about the reamer and go/no go gauges. McGowen is who is going to make the "pre fit" savage barrels for us. I do have a question, and I am hoping someone will have a good response to it...snip...

As a big Savage fanboy, that is tantalizing to know. I have two Model 12 Thumbhole Varminters with 4 barrels that I switch out on them depending upon what I'm in the mood for. It only takes a few minutes, a wrench and a headspace gauge to change them out. Less time than changing an AR barrel for certain. Anyway, if I didn't have so many irons already in the fire for this short northern comfortable shooting season, I might consider it though I'm not sure why since I have the bushy already and I for one, do appreciate the reduction in recoil that comes from a gas auto as opposed to a bolt-action. It might be interesting to load up some "suicide runs" that would not safely go in an AR, but just to see what you can wring out of the caliber with a 24" bull barrel. I'm afraid that my interest wouldn't last very long since I wouldn't choose to hunt it over the bushy. Still, it is tantalizing...

Hoot

[wildcatter]

More words of wisdom from WC!

Hey WC...has Mossberg ever gotten around to shipping their MVP bolt gun to you? Jus' wonnerin'...

Nope, ain't seen Hide-nor-Hair. If they don't hurry on, I'm going to have to send Hoot out on a Search and Rescue..

Speaking of Hoot, his statement about prolly not hunting with anything but his Thumper, well I gotta agree. Even with the new 450LM, weight is a big consideration and the Thumper, will already kill everything I need dead. BBUUUTTTT, one never knows when he might come up against an attacking Godzilla, right??..

..t

[commander faschisto]

Hey, "Godzilla" (or, Godzirra), might be a good nickname for the new 450LM when it comes out?

[pitted bore]

... It might be interesting to load up some "suicide runs" that would not safely go in an AR, but just to see what you can wring out of the caliber with a 24" bull barrel. ...

Hoot-
Would you settle for a 26-inch bull barrel?

M70 450B, 26" bull barrel by McGowen

M70.png (108.33 KiB) Viewed 14648 times

Have you in mind any particular suicide run?

--Bob

[Hoot]

... It might be interesting to load up some "suicide runs" that would not safely go in an AR, but just to see what you can wring out of the caliber with a 24" bull barrel. ...

Hoot-
Would you settle for a 26-inch bull barrel?

M70.png

Have you in mind any particular suicide run?

--Bob

No ideas come to mind Bob. I must say though, your range reports are always amazing and it was your efforts that made me think of the term "suicide run". It's a rather poor choice of words though as you don't jack up your loads til the gun or brass goes 1 step past failure. I know you've taken your bolt action into the 1 (or more) steps beyond failure for an AR though. That bolt action sure has one heck of a recoil pad on it and it's not for looks either.

Hoot

[pitted bore]

No ideas come to mind Bob. I must say though, your range reports are always amazing and it was your efforts that made me think of the term "suicide run". It's a rather poor choice of words though as you don't jack up your loads til the gun or brass goes 1 step past failure. I know you've taken your bolt action into the 1 (or more) steps beyond failure for an AR though. That bolt action sure has one heck of a recoil pad on it and it's not for looks either.

Hoot-
There was an incident last summer that might have resembled a suicide run if I'd had my face on the stock. Fortunately, I decided "to cautiously go where no man has gone before", sandbagged the rifle in place, hid behind a big maple tree 20 feet back of the firing line, and pulled the trigger with a string. Nobody else was at the range. The rifle held together just fine, but the case didn't. The primer simply disappeared. I'll post the full story one of these days when I get over being embarrassed about being dumb.

What looks like a recoil pad on the stock of my M70 bolt rifle is not a pad; it's a couple of pieces of aluminum with a hard (!) piece of rubber attached. The stock was a take-off from a Remington 40X rimfire target rifle from when the govt was torching a bunch of these rifles in the mid-90s. The stocks were sold as surplus, and I bought three from Reese Surplus. All three came with early Freeland Adjustable Butt Plates having only vertical adjustment. I think these were not original equipment from Remington, but were added later. The rubber itself is by the Mershon Co, with their trademark "White Line" insert.

The pad on my rifle in no way acts as a recoil pad. It's just a chunk of rubber that Al Freeland designed and that Mershon manufactured for him. The tires on my pickup have rubber softer than this pad. Recoil of the rifle is moderated by the weight, which I think is more than 13 or 14 pounds.

The CMP sold some 40X rimfires recently. Here is a link to a post in thread on another forum site, with photos showing a CMP 40X rifle with a stock almost exactly like mine: CMP 40X Status Thread.

(More than you wanted to know.)

Here's a somewhat better photo showing the butt plate on my rifle.
--Bob

buttplate of M70 450B bolt rifle

mershon.jpg (42.24 KiB) Viewed 14631 times