No accuracy guarantee on Christensen Arms Mesa 450BM?

I know of one so far, let's see if more show up.

Moderator: MudBug

No accuracy guarantee on Christensen Arms Mesa 450BM?

Postby isptroop38 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:18 pm

I was eyeballing a Christensen Arms Mesa in 450BM, but noticed an asterisk denoting the ".450 Bushmaster does not qualify for our Accuracy Guarantee."

Why would they guarantee all their Mesa rifles except for the 450?

Does anyone own one or has anyone shot one? How do they shoot?

I can't bring myself to pay that kind of money for one just to find out it shoots as bad as my RAR for 3 times the price.
isptroop38
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:12 pm

Re: No accuracy guarantee on Christensen Arms Mesa 450BM?

Postby Hoot » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:01 am

isptroop38 wrote:I was eyeballing a Christensen Arms Mesa in 450BM, but noticed an asterisk denoting the ".450 Bushmaster does not qualify for our Accuracy Guarantee."

Why would they guarantee all their Mesa rifles except for the 450?

Does anyone own one or has anyone shot one? How do they shoot?

I can't bring myself to pay that kind of money for one just to find out it shoots as bad as my RAR for 3 times the price.


Welcome Aboard OM!

A lot of rifles don't come with an accuracy guarantee. That's why shooters reload, to find the pet load(s) their particular rifle likes. None of the original Bushmaster 450 uppers came with an accuracy guarantees, but experimentation yielded loads like this one:

5-shot groups at 100 yds. 1/2 inch grid:

Image

If you only have access to factory loads, then Yes, an accuracy guarantee "with factory loads" would be important before upgrading to a higher priced rifle. The 450b RAR can shoot very accurately with the right handloads and bench technique. Spend that money on reloading equipment instead. All of your rifles will thank you. ;)

Hoot
In Theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In Practice, there is.
User avatar
Hoot
 
Posts: 3973
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:34 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: No accuracy guarantee on Christensen Arms Mesa 450BM?

Postby Al in Mi » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:55 am

isptroop38 wrote:I was eyeballing a Christensen Arms Mesa in 450BM, but noticed an asterisk denoting the ".450 Bushmaster does not qualify for our Accuracy Guarantee."

Why would they guarantee all their Mesa rifles except for the 450?

Does anyone own one or has anyone shot one? How do they shoot?

I can't bring myself to pay that kind of money for one just to find out it shoots as bad as my RAR for 3 times the price.


how bad is your RAR shooting?
Al in Mi
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:24 am

Re: No accuracy guarantee on Christensen Arms Mesa 450BM?

Postby isptroop38 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:46 am

Hey, that's a great target Hoot!

I should have given more detail in my first post. Thanks for the welcome by the way, I just got into the 450BM since Iowa made it a legal cartridge for deer this year - much the same as Ohio, Indiana, and Michigan. I understand marksmanship principles and ballistics. I do reload as well, but have not started reloading the 450 yet.

I shoot a lot of .308 at distance and my best group to date is a .279" at 100 and 2.83" at 500 with my old Rem 700 VSF and handloads. I just had my .223 bolt gun rebarreled with a Bartlein, so I'm interested to try it out and find the load it likes best. I usually reload to get my rifles to shoot sub-minute as factory ammo obviously limits that ability, though factory produced ammo has come a long way from where it used to be. I am somewhat picky - if a rifle won't shoot 3/4 minute or better, I get rid of it and move on.

I bought my RAR from Randy's Hunting Center like so many others. I adjusted the trigger to 3 lbs and mounted a Vortex Viper 2.5-10x44 in cheap Vortex rings using a scope level. I got it sighted in and then it started throwing flyers several inches away. I was using Hornady Black ammo. I checked the ring screws immediately and found they were loose. I checked them after each subsequent shot and found they were loosening with each shot. I got the rings very cheap and I got what I paid for. I replaced those rings with Warne Maxima Steel rings and used low strength 222 (purple) loc-tite to be sure they would not budge. I also removed and reinstalled the base screws in the factory rail using the low strength loc-tite. In addition, I relieved the barrel channel in the stock at the end of the forearm slightly. When shooting off a bipod and loading the bipod, the forearm tip was making contact with the barrel. I ensured the barrel was free floating so there was no stock contact.

I got sighted back in with Hornady Black ammo and got the rifle zeroed. The best group it has shot is 1.25 MOA which is unacceptable to me. Maybe it will shoot half that with handloads, but Hornady guarantees 1 MOA with factory ammo. I bought a box of the Hornady custom ammo to see if that would shoot better and it shot even worse. I checked all ring screws and they are solid - they will not turn without significant pressure to break the loc-tite loose (which I did not do). I do not expect this factory rifle with factory ammo to shoot .5 MOA, but it should at least shoot the 1 MOA guarantee. When a manufacturer gives that guarantee, the rifle will usually shoot much better. I have not found that to be the case here.

I plan to upgrade after this year's deer season and have been looking at many options. I plan to stick with a bolt action. I am leaning heavily towards an aftermarket barrel on a Remington or Savage. I want a heavier profile than what the RAR has for sure. The Christensen Arms Mesa caught my eye, but I am very leery if even Ruger guarantees 1 MOA and Christensen will not. I have not seen any reviews on their 450 or any targets shot with one, so I wanted to check here. Maybe it's too new of a rifle and not readily available yet.

Lastly, I have a Bowers VERS 458 on my RAR. It knocks the recoil down to make it feel like a .308 despite being such a light rifle and it takes away all of the concussion. It is the longest of any suppressor I own, but I wanted more volume to be effective as opposed to the SilencerCo Hybrid. The VERS weighs 18 oz, which is in a pretty common weight range. I don't know how much that is affecting the barrel harmonics on the lightweight barrel profile of the RAR. That said, I'm not going to waste any more money on ammo finding out. I plan to upgrade regardless after season. I have saved all my brass and plan to reload as well, I just didn't get any loads worked up before season and wanted to try the Hornday FTX projos on deer before deciding if I would load them or a different round.
isptroop38
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:12 pm

Re: No accuracy guarantee on Christensen Arms Mesa 450BM?

Postby Al in Mi » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:05 am

look up Precision Rifle, they are here in Mi and post on the board here from time to time. They look to make a awesome bolt gun from what I've read.

My 700 I did a few years ago with a barrel from Apache Gunworks, it is a 22" stainless Green Mtn barrel in a sender contour, ross brake, set in a old HS Precision stock I had laying around, and topped it off with a Trijicon 3-9 duplex with a green dot. I haven't worked with it much (too many irons on the burners), but shoots factory and a couple of reloads right at a inch off my bags. Might get better off a good rest and better glass and younger eyes, but shooting off the bags I find replicates shooting from my blind better.
Al in Mi
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:24 am

Re: No accuracy guarantee on Christensen Arms Mesa 450BM?

Postby isptroop38 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:32 am

Thanks Al, they are one that I am considering. The first picture they have at the top of this page really trips my trigger:

http://www.precisionriflecompany.com/450-bushmaster-bolt-action1.html

It looks like exactly what I am wanting. The price tag is not cheap, but it's only a few overtime shifts. :D

My only reluctance is that I will be using it for 2 weeks out of the year during Iowa's gun season. I have other rifles for practicing at the range and realistically won't be taking this out to plink. Then again, buy once and cry once holds true more often than not.

The Christensen caught my interest because I can get one for almost $500 dollars less than the Precision Rifle after adding the barrel threading cost.
isptroop38
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:12 pm

Re: No accuracy guarantee on Christensen Arms Mesa 450BM?

Postby trob_205 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:00 pm

Most manufactures don’t offer accuracy guarantees on big bore/straight wall. The majority of your average shooters tend to start to get a bad case of the flinches when it comes to a gun that might have a little recoil. Just because there is not accuracy guarantee doesn’t mean their gun building abilities go out the window. I just picked up the Mesa and plan on shooting it this week or next. I’ll post target pictures with factory ammo and plan on some load devopment this winter. If we can get a bushy upper to shoot 1” or better I’m not worried at all about getting this to shoot. They are nothing more than a custom 700 Action with different engraved logos.

Looking through that precision rifle page I see nothing about guaranteed accuracy other than producing rifles capable of under 1 moa
trob_205
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:19 pm

Re: No accuracy guarantee on Christensen Arms Mesa 450BM?

Postby isptroop38 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:05 pm

Hey, that is all true. I can understand not giving accuracy guarantees since you cannot base a refund off the average shooter's ability.

I am very, very interested to see how your Mesa shoots. Please post back here, start a new thread, or PM me with results and targets of how it shoots. I can't wait to see how it goes, but I expect it will shoot as good as it looks! Thanks again!
isptroop38
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:12 pm

Re: No accuracy guarantee on Christensen Arms Mesa 450BM?

Postby Hoot » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:54 am

isptroop38 wrote:...snip...
Lastly, I have a Bowers VERS 458 on my RAR. It knocks the recoil down to make it feel like a .308 despite being such a light rifle and it takes away all of the concussion. It is the longest of any suppressor I own, but I wanted more volume to be effective as opposed to the SilencerCo Hybrid. The VERS weighs 18 oz, which is in a pretty common weight range. I don't know how much that is affecting the barrel harmonics on the lightweight barrel profile of the RAR. That said, I'm not going to waste any more money on ammo finding out. I plan to upgrade regardless after season. I have saved all my brass and plan to reload as well, I just didn't get any loads worked up before season and wanted to try the Hornday FTX projos on deer before deciding if I would load them or a different round.


Ding Ding Ding! Well its apparent that you are a man of experience and get the big picture. Adding the Bowers could certainly leave your effective barrel length at a point where its detuned. Varmint Al's web site is quite useful for those not familiar with the concept. I'm betting you've already visited it. Pencil barrels are certainly more susceptible than bulls. Regardless of other troubleshooting yet to be done, it looks like your migrating upward anyway. I'm a big Savage Model 12 fan. I own two actions that share 5 different caliber barrels for them. A heavy barrel, despite the obvious negative of making the rifle heavier to lug around, does add stability to its performance, so good luck and I too await trob_205's range report(s) using that Mesa, as well as your reports with whatever you wind up getting.

Don't be too concerned if you see velocity SD's in numbers that wold make precision bottleneck caliber shooters cringe. This caliber's heavy bullets defy POI change you'd expect with velocity variations. Kind of like lobbing a bowling ball. ;)

Hoot
In Theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In Practice, there is.
User avatar
Hoot
 
Posts: 3973
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:34 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: No accuracy guarantee on Christensen Arms Mesa 450BM?

Postby trob_205 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:22 pm

Update on the Mesa. Shot it quite a bit today. It LOVES Hornady Custom ammo. Like 1/2 MOA loves it. In my load devoloment I don’t think I shot anything over 1.5 MOA (5 shot groups) with a lot of them having 3 out of the 5 well sub MOA. Looks like I need to try again at 200-300 yards to see what she really likes because it shot MOA with whatever I through at it. If I can figure out to to load pictures on here I’ll lod up a group my buddy shot with Hornady Custom. Velocity with Custom was 2230ish. I shot 37.8-39.3 grains Lil Gun under a 250 FTX for handloads. Velocity ranges 2350-2440 with those charges, which left me pleasantly surprised! Shot the low and high end of that range the best.
trob_205
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:19 pm

Next

Return to Bolt Action Rifles

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests