450bm....too much for Coues Deer

[coyote wacker]

Years ago when I was doing crop damage permits for father inlaw, I used a 338 Win mag with 250gr Sierra's. Some comments were made on how many times I was going to kill them, just smiled and said no such thing as deader than dead.

Surprisingly that bullet was pretty meat friendly. Really wish Sierra would bump that bullet up to .452.

I did deer damage permit shooting for many years....also used many calibers as a experiment to find the best caliber - bullet combo I settled on one caliber and bullet back in the mid 90's 243 with Sierra 85 gr. BTHP I've shot several thousand deer once I settled on that caliber and bullet....one thing to remember is when I shot these deer no season was open I only took perfect shot and all were anterless.....I also only took behind the shoulder shots for minimum meat damage because all meat was donated to the poor and needy....also didn't want deer to travel far after shooting durning the late summer with millions of biting insects and the heat....

[s4s4u]

I’m not one that really cares personally. There’s not much difference in these scrawny arsed Texas deer and a Couse deer and I’ll blast either one right into my freezer and sleep very well at night. LOL. I ain’t gonna judge. But there are those that do judge us.

99.9% of "those" wouldn't know a 450 BM from a 45 Colt or even a 30-30 for that matter

[Texas Sheepdawg]

[Escape Pod]

Thanks for sharing your experience, folks. It sounds as though as long as I can place the shot behind the shoulder there’s not much concern about excess meat damage using the larger diameter bullet. Might as well spend my money getting to Arizona rather than buying a new rifle that I cant shoot in Ohio.

I may go for the 160gr Cutting Edge Screamer for the flat trajectory if Butterfly ever gets them back in stock again….

[Texas Sheepdawg]

Just be sure you bring us many pictures! And feel free to post them on the MeWe group as well. As a matter fact it’s probably easier to post pictures on MeWe than it is here. Now go out there and thump something for us.

[Escape Pod]

Hey thanks, Texas Sheepdawg!

In researching for the fall hunt, I stumbled across this great resource. Reading between the lines, they would seem to warn against my 450BM and it’s 2.5-10x scope as suitable for what they say should be comfortable shooting out to 400 yards across canyons. It’s curious, since the same outfitter guides archery hunters to inside 60 yards. Must be different stalk techniques, or different expectations about nabbing a “trophy.”

https://www.arizonahunting.net/listofitems.htm

But they definitely echo the sentiment that “there’s no such thing as overkill.”

Since I can’t afford a guide anyways, I’ll just have to refine my spot and stalk technique to get me within 300y. Unless of course I can get my hands on some of those CEP 160gr screamers

[Texas Sheepdawg]

In the illustrious words of Burt Gummer….

1934B4C2-1330-4CE9-B37C-800270312787.jpeg (25.05 KiB) Viewed 4914 times

[plant_one]

Hey thanks, Texas Sheepdawg!

In researching for the fall hunt, I stumbled across this great resource. Reading between the lines, they would seem to warn against my 450BM and it’s 2.5-10x scope as suitable for what they say should be comfortable shooting out to 400 yards across canyons. It’s curious, since the same outfitter guides archery hunters to inside 60 yards. Must be different stalk techniques, or different expectations about nabbing a “trophy.”

https://www.arizonahunting.net/listofitems.htm

But they definitely echo the sentiment that “there’s no such thing as overkill.”

Since I can’t afford a guide anyways, I’ll just have to refine my spot and stalk technique to get me within 300y. Unless of course I can get my hands on some of those CEP 160gr screamers

the problem isnt that the 450 bm isnt a 400 yd cartridge... so TL:DR - you're gonna have to get yourself within range of your gun before you start blasting away.


its that there arent bullets suitable design to expand at those ranges - and the terminal (impact) velocity without them just punching right thru like a FMJ would - simply put, they wont expand because its just too slow. i dont even think maker produces a suitable 100yd to 400+ yd bullet for this caliber.


that and if you look at the drop chart for typical 450bm .... you damn well better have a rangefinder with you, and know your clicks to have any kind of prayer of getting a hit at 400+ yds if you were to take one with this cartridge and the typical bullets used for it.



simply put - its about a 200-225yd cartridge, max. at least for effective terminal velocity to get some expansion initiated with typical bullets.

i had a buddy who's quite the marksman shoot at a doe last season that was facing him, 250 ftx black load. just over 300 yds. good solid hit, the bullet essentailly entered high chest, and ran right down the backstrap next to the spine. he put her down with a follow up shot and got a successful kill and didnt find out what the first bullet did until he started butchering and found the wound track all down the basically wasted backstrap and out near the texas heart shot hole lol

he now has a little better understanding of the limitations of the cartridge, or more importantly the projectiles that we use to hunt with. and knowledge is power and all that.

[Escape Pod]

Fair point on the drop factor. I've got a BDC reticle, but I'm not sure I'd push it out to 400 yards with a conventional 250 grain FTX style bullet. My plan is to track down a wildcat cartridge like a butterfly ballistics 160gr screamer running 2775fps out of the muzzle, or a 240gr bear creak running 2550 fps muzzle velocity. Zeroed at around 200 yards, the 400 yard drop would be theoretically manageable with a rangefinder and a BDC. But I'd much rather get inside of 300 yards. It's not a short-range rifle. It's a long-range bow

As far as expansion goes, I've heard dicey things about FTX expansion and integrity on both the fast (close) and slow (far) end. I'm looking at some solid copper bullets that hold up well at the highest of speeds and expand generally well supposedly. I figure as long as the thing holds together and punctures the lungs it should be fine. A .452 bullet unexpanded still has to be about as big as a .243 fully expanded, and those have been used plenty on Coues Deer.

But all this is "internet theory." Feel free to set me straight.

[s4s4u]

A .452 bullet unexpanded still has to be about as big as a .243 fully expanded, and those have been used plenty on Coues Deer.

True, but if it is a pointed bullet and doesn't expand it will just needle it's way through. A hard cast with a 30% or larger meplat would leave a nice channel, but fly like a rock ballistically. I do a lot of handgun hunting, which means getting closer to the game. I would treat the 450BM similarly. Just get closer.