R&D

T/C Encore in 450b anyone?

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Re: R&D

Postby dogsniper » Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:43 am

Wildcatter,

I have a question. I see alot of people doing different things with this cartridge, and trying to put it into other action types. From my posts on other topics and in my discussions with you previously, you know I am building 3 bolt rifles for the 450B. My question is this...Suppose a guy had an H&R Handi Rifle, Buffalo Classic, in say...45LC (I do)....other than reaming the barrel for the 450B cartridge to fit....how much work would have to be done to make the extractor work? I was thinking a 243/308/270 extractor as these rifles are chambered for those, but not sure if the extractor would move "down" far enough to allow the cartridge to load considering the 450B has a rebated rim. I am not sure if I worded that question correctly, butI am sure you know what I am referring to.

Just a side note. I do not actually want to do this to MY Buffalo Classic, I would actually rather find a different 45LC barrel (no longer available thru H&R Barrel Accesory program) to try this with. I know if I look I could find a barrel.

Any thoughts??
Thanks!
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Re: R&D

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:27 am

Dogsniper, Tim and I discussed this about a year ago, and our question was the thickness around the chamber, the twist and especially the extractor. I called the MFG to inquire on barrel specs and got an extreme cold response of "That Information is proprietary". So I found a guy on gunbroker who was selling one in 45LC and told him what I wanted to do and asked if he would measure the chamber dimensions. He basically told me to bugger off. And that was pretty much where I have to admit I got discouraged and dropped the project. Took the $$$ I was gonna invest and instead, built my Grendel.
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Re: R&D

Postby dogsniper » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:23 am

Texas Sheepdawg wrote:Dogsniper, Tim and I discussed this about a year ago, and our question was the thickness around the chamber, the twist and especially the extractor. I called the MFG to inquire on barrel specs and got an extreme cold response of "That Information is proprietary". So I found a guy on gunbroker who was selling one in 45LC and told him what I wanted to do and asked if he would measure the chamber dimensions. He basically told me to bugger off. And that was pretty much where I have to admit I got discouraged and dropped the project. Took the $$$ I was gonna invest and instead, built my Grendel.



So, maybe I can help with the dimensions you would need to know if this could be done. I believe the twist is 1:16...maybe 1:20 ? I can check that with the jag and cleaning rod method. I can use my dial calipers to measure barrrel around the chamber. What measurement would you need for the extractor? The length? A friend of mine has a 270 Handi-rifle, I could also measure his extractor length.

I understand using the money for other projects...been guilty of that many times. But if I can get these measurements to you, would you be able to tell if it was EVEN POSSIBLE to make something like this work?

I admit whole heartedly that I am NOT a gunsmith. I mean, I have fitted a few stocks, glass bedded, etc (and Hoot told me how to rebarrel my savage when my 450B barrel comes in)....Would love to be a gunsmith, cause I have some pretty awesome ideas....but no knowledge how to make them work..
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Re: R&D

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:08 am

Get With WC, I wished I had one of those rifles but like I said, when they treated me like crap, I dropped it. But if Tim says it can be done, I want in. I will go find and buy one and pay WC do the mod when he gets time.
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Re: R&D

Postby dogsniper » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:37 am

Texas Sheepdawg wrote:Get With WC, I wished I had one of those rifles but like I said, when they treated me like crap, I dropped it. But if Tim says it can be done, I want in. I will go find and buy one and pay WC do the mod when he gets time.



WC,

I am going to get the dimensions and post them on here. Texas Sheepdawg recommended I get with you, and let you determine if this could be done. I should have dimensions later today...going to go home at lunch and get out my dial calipers....
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Re: R&D

Postby dogsniper » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:33 am

To WC and Texas Sheepdawg,

Okay, so I ran home at lunch and pulled the H&R Handi-Rifle Buffalo Classc 45LC out of the safe, and grabbed my dial calipers. Below are the measurements I got for my rifle.

Outside Barrel Dia. = 1.110"
Inside Chamber Dia. = .480"
Thickness around chamber = .315" (the bore actually seems to be a real good center bore, at least at the chamber)
Extractor Length = .640" The extractor is shaped like an "L". This measurement is from the BOTTOM edge to the TOP of the "prongs" where the radius is machined and it grabs behind the rim.
Twist Rate = 1:16

I know that the twist rate is kinda fast...that has been discussed on this site MANY times. I also know that the chamber should be of no problem being finish reamed to accept the 450B Cartridge. The only real area of concern that I can think of, is HOW the extractor would have to be modified to allow the clearance for the body of the 450B cartridge, but still grab the rebated rim to remove the spent casing??? I will admit this will take someone with more brain power than I can muster at this moment. My wheels are churning...but nothing that will actually allow the action to close is coming to mind. I keep thinking of a "swinging", or pivoting extractor...something like what the Encore Pro Hunter Muzzleloader has to remove the 209 primer???

WC what do you think??
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Re: R&D

Postby wildcatter » Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:14 pm

It could be done, but at what expense?

Seems like there's enough barrel around the chamber, the extractor is a big problem, the twist is "Bad", making all this is expensive custom work, for naught.

My thought, would be to get a barrel chambered, in any cartridge that has a rim and body diameter of .473" and a muzzle diameter of say .700", you might have to shorten the barrel, to a point wherein you get the .700" number, but it better still be, at least, 16" long. Your 270, in this gun would be fine (provided the barrel meets the requirements I just lined out), cut rifle the barrel, with a better twist, with a .4515" groove, and then just chamber it, Bingo, you're in business, with a much better conversion and cheaper to boot..

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Re: R&D

Postby BillytheKid » Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:50 pm

dogsniper wrote: I have some pretty awesome ideas....but no knowledge how to make them work..


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