Duplicating factory hornady with Lil' gun

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Duplicating factory hornady with Lil' gun

Postby Gutpile » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:13 am

Trying to duplicate factory 250 FTX loads with Lil' gun
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Re: Duplicating factory hornady with Lil' gun

Postby Hoot » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:57 am

Back in the days of the old formula for Lil Gun, the notes on the target were pretty much the gold standard.

Image

38gr Lil Gun
Rem 7 1/2
Seat to 2.26 COL
Taper crimp to .476 at the mouth
~2200-2225 fps out of a 20" Bushmaster AR upper depending on ambient temperature.

With the new Lil Gun formulation, it could be as low as 36gr and work up from there. I think Hornady went with 296/H110 powder, possibly a commercial formula like W297. At least that's what a pulled down commercial round seemed to look like.

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Re: Duplicating factory hornady with Lil' gun

Postby Gutpile » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:26 am

Load data with the Lee die set has powders listed I have not seen much reference on this board.
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Re: Duplicating factory hornady with Lil' gun

Postby Hoot » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:38 am

Gutpile wrote:Load data with the Lee die set has powders listed I have not seen much reference on this board.


The Load Database was not supported from early on. I suspect this may have been an Admin decision based upon liability concerns. Lots of contributors, some of which are more adventurous than others. Think of a newbie grabbing someone's over the top recipe and running with it because they wanted max velocity right out of the chute. :roll: So, unfortunately, its more like panning for gold, through this sub-forum. Google's forum search, as explained in a thread in my Information Depository sub forum, is great for that.

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Re: Duplicating factory hornady with Lil' gun

Postby Gutpile » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:55 pm

Well I just got a steal on 2 8lb kegs how can you tell the old from the new?
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Re: Duplicating factory hornady with Lil' gun

Postby Hoot » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:16 am

Gutpile wrote:Well I just got a steal on 2 8lb kegs how can you tell the old from the new?


While not impossible, there's always a chance that old formulations are still around, most likely at small mom and pop stores or someone's personal stash. At more active stores, the odds are nil as the formulation changed a long time ago in terms of new powder life cycle goes. Look at the date code sticker, which should be on every bottle.

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Re: Duplicating factory hornady with Lil' gun

Postby plant_one » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:10 pm

Hoot wrote:
Gutpile wrote:Well I just got a steal on 2 8lb kegs how can you tell the old from the new?


While not impossible, there's always a chance that old formulations are still around, most likely at small mom and pop stores or someone's personal stash. At more active stores, the odds are nil as the formulation changed a long time ago in terms of new powder life cycle goes. Look at the date code sticker, which should be on every bottle.

Hoot



at what date would the old forumula have been fazed out?
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Re: Duplicating factory hornady with Lil' gun

Postby Al in Mi » Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:11 am

I noticed the difference about 4yrs ago
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Re: Duplicating factory hornady with Lil' gun

Postby Hoot » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:19 am

I'm going to eat a little crow here. I throw around terms such as formula like I'm a chemist, which despite knowing a good deal about the subject, I'm Not. Like many other reloaders of Lil Gun in metallic jacketed cartridges, I noticed a change for the hotter around 2014-15. The assumption that they changed the formula was just that, an assumption. There are production variations with primers as well. I never took a look at whether I changed primer lots around that time however. I did com into several bricks of 7 1/2 primers in the same time frame, taking them wherever I could find them. There was a supply shortage going on at the time. Anyway, my assumption was anecdotal and not very scientifically based, to say the least. What threw a monkey wrench into my beliefs was when I found a 4-pound jug of Lil Gun at a small mom and pop reloading store. A very chance discovery when it was hard to find anywhere. The date code on the jug was March of 2009. It too shot a little hot in my tried and true recipes!

Some times, I forget the experiences in the past that are pertinent to a discussion I participate in. I admit to not paying much attention to date codes on the 1-pound bottles I used when I first got into this caliber. Who knows how old they were. Back in 2011, I was doing some workup on the Barnes XPB bullets and midway through, ran out of a bottle, necessitating buying another (from same local shop I always use). My resultant velocities dropped 2 grains worth. In that case, I was using the same primers.

The point I'm struggling to make is that variation exists and stacking tolerance variations from different primers and powders at the same time, not to mention other factors (see below), can "cloud the waters" of observation. I will try to be better going forward, not too throw around terms that are more opinion based than scientific. All I can honestly say is that where Lil Gun is concerned, something changed over the years. That should be of little consequence to the prudent reloader, who always starts low and works up to determine what their rig safely likes.

The following are factors that can affect resultant velocity and pressure for the same charge weight:

Powder characteristics
Primer characteristics
Barrel ID, finish, cleanliness
Bullet OD
Case capacity
COL (overall is one word)
Temperature
I'm probably missing a couple...

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Re: Duplicating factory hornady with Lil' gun

Postby gmstack » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:49 am

Hoot, your observations are always insightful and honest and I always appreciate your help. Whom ever said experience is the best teacher had It right. guy
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