Bullet type

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Bullet type

Postby Smithjdsr » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:40 am

It’s my impression that jacketed bullets won’t (lead, foul, etc...) a barrel as badly as unjacketed lead bullets. Isn’t that why they paint them to make them look like lipstick? Is that an old-fashioned notion, or will lead bullets really deposit lead in a barrel in a way that the copper of a jacketed bullet will not? Even with reloading I won’t be shooting thousands of rounds- maybe hundreds.

Since I’m hunting with factory ammo this year (don’t even have my dies yet) Hornady Custom 250 grain FTX bullets for my Bushy, I think I’ll first try the 225 grain FTX bullets as suggested in another thread. They seem to be less than half the price and some reloaders say they are still tough enough for the higher pressure and velocity of the Bushy to hunt with them. Honestly, I’ll probably keep hunting with factory ammo. For off-season shooting, however, cheaper is less expensive. Lead bullets are cheaper for punching holes in paper, but I’m a little worried about my barrel...
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Re: Bullet type

Postby Bmt85 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:07 am

I see your running an AR, so I'll give my opinion.

I don't know a whole lot about lead bullets. It's been a while, but I was looking into it for the absolute lowest reloading cost. I didn't want to run naked or lubed lead in my AR's, so I looked into coated. Problem is you can still only push them so fast. From what I saw, most common coated 45 caliber bullets are under 250gr. Well, a light load with a light bullet probably won't play well with trying to cycle an AR. Maybe if you have a 16" barrel with carbine length gas system, it might work ok, better if it's overgassed. For me personally, they probably wouldn't work in 2 450B's. If you ran a heavier coated bullet at about the same speed, you should have higher pressures, so that should work for most, but looking at the prices for the heavies, it didn't seem worth it.

So in my opinion, if you cast and coat your own 300gr or heavier bullets, then it should work. Other than that, I would say run jacketed.
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Re: Bullet type

Postby Hoot » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:32 am

Smithjdsr wrote:...snip... I think I’ll first try the 225 grain FTX bullets as suggested in another thread. They seem to be less than half the price and some reloaders say they are still tough enough for the higher pressure and velocity of the Bushy to hunt with them...snip


Here's a Link to a recent post showing the damage and penetration that the 200 FTX accomplished on a deer. The 225 FTX will perform similarly on them.

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Re: Bullet type

Postby Smithjdsr » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:02 pm

Honestly, it’s all a little intimidating. I’ve loaded 38/357, 30-06, and 300 Win mag, but a LONG time ago. Starting over is like being a complete newbie. I never had to think about things like “toughness” with what I did in the past; a 165 grain btsp 30 cal bullet worked in a 300 Win mag just like it worked in 30-06. Maybe I bought bullets designed for the mag to begin with and so it wasn’t an issue? Or maybe I wasn’t getting optimal expansion in the -06 because it was a mag bullet? Or maybe it broke apart with the mag when it should have expanded and stayed together? (Not my mag- I loaded for my uncle, but he never complained...). I just don’t remember worrying about those details.

It all makes sense, that a bullet designed for an 1890’s cowboy handgun wouldn’t work, or MIGHT not work, in a 21st Century rifle- but I never gave that stuff much thought before, and back then, 357 mag bullets were 357 mag bullets. This kid’s got a LOT to learn.

I’m going to start with the 225 grain Hornady bullets to shoot targets this spring and summer (deer season is Saturday, so I’ll be hunting with factory loads like I did in Wisconsin a couple of weeks ago). If I can punch holes in paper at 100-200 yards the way I want, I might be ready to hunt with them next fall.
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Re: Bullet type

Postby Smithjdsr » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:14 pm

What about brass and primers?

In shotgun reloading (which I’ve continued to do a lot of all along) the tube makes all the difference. Winchester AA tubes aren’t anything like Winchester-Western tubes and nothing at all like Federal tubes. Federal 209 primers are totally different than CCI 209 primers and I always follow the book EXACTLY for tube, powder, wad, primer, and shot charge.

Is brass like that? All my brass, so far, is from 450 B Hornady factory ammo that I once-fired and caught in a brass catcher. Will it re-size and re-load like Winchester or some other brass? Are primers as different as shotgun primers?

Eventually I’ll get dies for 223, 9mm and 45 ACP and I’ll want to load for those too. Obviously, I know about steel, and brass covered steel cases, as well as aluminum cases. And I know there are different primer types and sizes, so I won’t mess with berdan primed cases... But, assuming they’re boxer-primed, brass cases, will the different brass manufacturers load the same?
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Re: Bullet type

Postby Bmt85 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:20 pm

Well, in my experience, there is a small difference between Hornady and Starline brass in 450B. I have no experience with Winchester brass. I have noticed that Starline is a little bit thinner than Hornady, so it holds a little more powder, but I feel brass choice should be more dependent on the chamber you have. My Bushmaster factory upper and BHW barrel have chambers on the bigger end, so Hornady holds up better, where as my Tromix has a tighter chamber, and Starline does very well. The Starline seems to be on the small side of spec. When I ran the Starline in my Tromix, CHG wasn’t the issue to watch out for, it was case length growth. Had a couple hot handloads that actually jammed the rifle because the case length growth was extreme, but case head growth was within limits. That was on new brass, so using once or twice fired will be a little different. When I ran Starline in my BHW barrel, mid-high book loads were producing case head growth at the upper limits, even once fired Starline exhibited this. When I switched to once fired Hornady, case head growth was within normal limits, even at slightly higher charges. However, if you run Hornady in a tighter chamber, it will reach a point of not being able to chamber because of case head growth sooner.

So if your just looking to plink and make up some normal power hunting loads, it doesn’t really matter which you go with. If your going to try and push as much as you safely can out of the rifle, then it depends.
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Re: Bullet type

Postby Hoot » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:05 pm

Don't let our attention to detail overwhelm you. This is a different class of rifle caliber than the bottlenecks. Sure, it has some needs that you have to satisfy but it is a devastating caliber. Any bullet will ooze terminal performance at 2200fps and beyond. No harm in wanting the best components for getting it there. It really likes hot primers. I've used (in order of preference) Remington 7 1/2, Winchester WSR and Federal 205M, all with hardly a hair in performance difference. I have not tried CCI 450 because in my area, Rem 7 1/2 are not hard to come by, especially the further away from Sandy Hook we get. Everything was hard to find back then. Don't read that remark as me implying that Sandy Hook was merely an imposition. It was and will forever be a tragedy of epic proportions. All primers will go bang. All bullets will race away from your muzzle. All powders will burn. Finding the optimum combinations is what I consider, time well spent. There are obviously better choices of all components. As Bmt85 said, find which brand of brass (Hornady or Starline) that comes out of your rifle looking as close to how it went in, dimension wise. That's your case of choice. Manufacturing variances will sometimes place brass in your possession who's behavior can be misleading. Learn to read their language as a whole. Shooting those 225's will do several things for your understanding of how this works. Try not to change more than one variable per range visit or you risk loosing clarity. The 225's, with the right recipe will spoil you and that's ok. You need to shore up your early experiences with success before you torment yourself with experimentation. The trigger time will also allow you to recognize a good day to go shooting versus a bad one. The 450b was my first serious foray into shooting an AR based weapon. I had a 223 rig with a 24" varmint barrel and as soon as I learned that it worked, it went back in the safe until the 450b came along. Before that, I was into bolt action, precision bottle neck caliber shooting but I have a pair of Browning BAR's (30-06 & 300 WM) that demonstrated early on how a semi-auto deer rifle should perform, so getting comfortable with an AR based rifle that seriously rocks & rolls was a new experience that needed growing into. For me, shooting a heavy caliber AR is not like riding a bicycle and never will be, More like riding a unicycle. I can put a bolt action bottle neck rifle away for a couple of years and it still makes me look like a pro when I take it to the range. Not so with an AR. If I don't shoot it regularly, I seem to lose everything I learned from the previous outing. Depending upon how close you live to a shooting facility and the ease of access, through practice with your 450b, you will quickly learn how to feed it and get the most out of it. Don't ruin the process by trying to make it hold its own with more precise, long range designed bottleneck calibers. They all have their place in the spectrum of shooting. I got a 450b because I wanted a heavy woods thumper and it excels in that mission.

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Re: Bullet type

Postby Smithjdsr » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:37 am

I LOVE attention to detail. I may only be a 6th grade social studies teacher, but in a past life I was a chemist (13 years). Details are the life blood of a chemist! Also, I like my face where it is on the front of my head and I like my real life blood inside where it belongs, so attention to detail while reloading seems to be a worthy cause.

Once this season wraps up in a week, I’ll turn my attention to stuffing bullets into brass tubes to entertain myself on those cold, winter evenings. I’ll start with the Hornady 225’s. My dies showed up yesterday, electronic scale and universal de-capping die should arrive on Saturday while I’m hunting. I have a beam balance and a Redding powder measure and a caliper that I use for 80% lowers. Maybe last is to make or buy a tumbler. I guess I also need a Hornady 10th edition (I have 2nd edition 1st printing- does that tell you why starting over I consider myself to be a beginner?).
Last edited by Smithjdsr on Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bullet type

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:01 am

Smithjdsr wrote:I LOVE attention to detail. I may only be a 6th grade social studies teacher, but in a past life I was a chemist (13 years). Details are the life blood of a chemist! Also, I like my face where it is on the front of my head and I like my real life blood inside where it belongs, so attention to detail while reloading seems to be a worthy cause.

Once this season wraps up in a week, I’ll turn my attention to stuffing bullets into brass tubes to entertainme on those cold, winter evenings. I’ll start with the Jornady 225’s. My dies showed up yesterday, electronic scale and universal de-capping die should arrive on Saturday while I’m hunting. I have a beam balance and a Redding powder measure and a caliper that I use for 80% lowers. Maybe last is to make or buy a tumbler. I guess I also need a Hornady 10th edition (I have 2nd edition 1st printing- does that tell you why starting over I consider myself to be a beginner?).


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Re: Bullet type

Postby Smithjdsr » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:23 am

Oh, the press; it’s an RCBS Jr3 that dad and I used to use. It seems as solid as a brick outhouse. I think I’ll eventually get a capper, but it should be ok to use the built-in one on the press for now. I have no idea where the primer tray is- it sits around the chassis of the press and looks a little like a Dunkin’ donut with a handle (why did they quit making those? they were my favorite donut. Now I’m hungry.)
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