450 Heavy For Caliber and Subsonic

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Re: 450 Heavy For Caliber and Subsonic

Postby Herker » Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:09 pm

With regards to #4 and #5 above.

#4 - I haven't pulled any apart to weigh powder or try to identify the type of powder (since that's just a guessing game). I figure I will just keep pursuing my own load and keep the factory for a base comparison and shoot up the ammo over the coming years as I can.

#5 - With regards to the lack of expansion, I have been thinking about this the last couple of days.

If in fact, Hornady's Sub-x round was designed to expand on meat at low velocity, meaning an extremely soft nose. I am guessing that slamming through the hide of a pig in one of its thickest parts and then shoulder blade (dead middle) of a pig is a bit on the extreme side.

To me, this probably destroyed the entire front expansion area of the bullet. I didn't see any jacket pieces anywhere but it may have just disintegrated the entire nose of the bullet ahead of the base at this point. This would have only left the base of the bullet (.45 caliber) to exit the other shoulder blade and opposite hide. If this is the case, and in my mind it is completely likely, then the bullet performed perfectly.....expansion against soft tissue with base penetration against hard objects.

If it had hit just meat it would likely mushroom down to the base and keep going as a somewhat intact unit shedding a few pieces as it went...however upon striking bone it shed the upper part but the base remained intact. Two should blade and hide penetration througha and through is impressive bullet construction that allowed it to pass through hide, bone, internals, bone, hide and keep going after leaving a nice hole all the way through. I doubt seriously that the rubber nose cone made it out the other side of that shot.

Now...I temper my above paragraph in my mind by saying...well is it really that impressive new technology? My .45-70 with a 405 (vs this 395g) at 1,250fps has done that for 100 years lol.


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Re: 450 Heavy For Caliber and Subsonic

Postby coyote wacker » Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:42 am

One thing I've found out with sub-sonics. You must take chronograph velocities at maximum range your going to shoot. In my testing of Cutting Edge Bullets 240 gr Handgun Raptor with a plastic tip added. My maximum distance was 75 yards that I got 800 fps and still expanded, in "wet paper media".

My "Wet Paper Media" is newspapers soaked in water for 24 hours, then put in a rack with 1/2" hardware cloth bottom to drain for 24 hours. Any bullet that gets 8" of penetration will shoot threw the shoulders of a large northern whitetail. It will give you a very good idea of wound channel and recovered bullets. 16" of "media" will stop most expanding bullets.

When it warms up here I'll be shooting some Makers Bullets 425 gr. in some "media".
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Re: 450 Heavy For Caliber and Subsonic

Postby Top_prop » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:17 am

Hoping for some updates here. Looking for a good subsonic solution to deer... I have a 12" 45 cal can... and a few 18 and 20" barreled AR uppers. Seeing I have SBR's AR's as well, thinking of building an 11" upper for the 12" can and doing some subsonic... But I was thinking gas checked lead bullets, just because they tend to mushroom better at sub velocities (from what I've read).

These 360gr bullets from Midway have caught my eye: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010707860?pid=896175

I'd like to use powders I have on hand rather than buying another bottle (like trail boss or tin star):

AA7
5744
Lil gun
BlackHorn209
MR2495
MR3100
IMR4350
MR2460
MR2520
W760
W785
Herters 100 (very similar to 4350)

Looking for suggestions. Watching this thread.
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Re: 450 Heavy For Caliber and Subsonic

Postby 07Kingpin » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:06 pm

Working on this as well.

Have a Savage with a 18" 1:16 barrel.

Am casting a Keith style wide meplat 400gr bullet.

Have IMR4227, Lil Gun, Unique and TB,

So far TB and Unique seem to do the best but more testing needed, hope more folks chime in!
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Re: 450 Heavy For Caliber and Subsonic

Postby EO[SCW] » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:52 pm

I've been following this as well. My intention whit this build is to sling resized 405gr Remington's through a form 1 can. I do not like to shoot cast boolits through a can.

Ive had great luck with Trailboss in 300blk. The one thing I learned in a black gun shooting subs is an adjustable gas block and carbine length gas system make all the different in the world to get one to run reliabily. Also mentioned was the extra amount of noise when it functions. A captured recoil spring will make a whole lot of difference in what you are hearing when that bolt cycles. I highly recommend one like the JP. There are a few others that are cheaper now that I've heard good things about as well.

I'm waiting for a law tactical folding adapter before I cut my 16" barrel with carbine lenth gas and adjustable block down to 13". Seems to me from my research the 13" is kind of the sweet spot for subs and supers. Once I have a functional pistol under 26" AOL ill start playing with loads but who knows with availability on things right now, when that will be
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Re: 450 Heavy For Caliber and Subsonic

Postby 07Kingpin » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:09 pm

How is the resizing process going for you?

Do you size in multiple steps?
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Re: 450 Heavy For Caliber and Subsonic

Postby EO[SCW] » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:44 pm

07Kingpin wrote:How is the resizing process going for you?

Do you size in multiple steps?


I'll let you know when I get going with them. I dont expect any issues from past sizing experiments. That remington has a thin jacket so should take the sizing well. Ill be using .454 and then .451 to bring it down from the .458. I was on the fence about the bushy because of the lack of bulet choices but there seem to be some really good options now but sizing the huge amount of .458 bulets out there seems to give unlimited options.
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