Cheaper bullet for shooting paper

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Cheaper bullet for shooting paper

Postby jg5254 » Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:58 pm

I was thinking of reloding with Rainier LeadSafe Bullets 45 Caliber (452 Diameter) 250 Grain Plated Flat Nose, for shooting paper, anyone tried a similar bullet? any concerns?
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Re: Cheaper bullet for shooting paper

Postby Hoot » Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:28 am

JG;

I can only speak for myself, but other folks will echo the same sentiment and that is stay away from plated bullets.The stresses placed upon bullets for the 450b are greater than what plated bullets are designed for. The jackets are like the copper version of aluminum foil and in my case they shed pieces of jacket after they came out of the barrel. Accuracy at 100 yards was all over the 4x4 target backboard. For me, the biggest challenge was getting reasonable neck tension. They are soft and deform easily. In my case, after applying the taper crimp, it only took 2-3 taps with an inertial puller to make the bullet come out. That's as opposed to 8-10 smacks I strive for to get adequate chamber pressure in my 450b. It's too bad as I have a box of 500 plated 230gr bullets I've been working off of with my 1911 and originally hoped to use them for the 450b.

I have successfully loaded Magtech 230 gr FMJs in my 450b. They go for around $.20 each in bags of 100. For $.27 each, you can get a very accurate 225 gr Hornady FTX and by accurate, I mean sub-MOA at 100 yards if you do your part at the trigger. This is my favorite load for my 450b. Very consistent ahead of 38gr Lil Gun and Remington 7 1/2 primers.

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Re: Cheaper bullet for shooting paper

Postby jg5254 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:41 am

Thanks for the info Hoot.
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Re: Cheaper bullet for shooting paper

Postby slash2 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:41 am

At about $.12 each for a 1000 delivered to your door, it's hard to beat Zero 230 gr FMJs from Roze Distribution. http://www.rozedist.com/

They aren't sub MOA bullets but they are minute of milk jug at a 100 yards no problem. I also shoot them out of my 1911, Model 94 .45 Colt rifle and .454 Casull Super Redhawk. I've found that for a couple of cents more their hollow points are a little more accurate if all you want to do is punch paper, but obviously they aren't made for high velocity penetration on large game animals.
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Re: Cheaper bullet for shooting paper

Postby jg5254 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:17 pm

Cool, thats what I was looking for. Thanks for the info.
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Re: Cheaper bullet for shooting paper

Postby wildcatter » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:50 pm

I need a couple of things. I've got to do some proofing, and I need some shooters, that are as loony as they get. If they are not Loony, they will be after I get done with them.

I need about 250,000, "Jacketed" .4515" +- .002", really cheap, prolly gov surplus, bullets. They could be lead, but they'd have to be heavy, say 300 to 350gr , and prolly, w/gas checks, so I can keep the speeds low and the pressures high. Some of you lead guys, might have an idea or two?

Are there any Leeds you can souvenir me with?

..t
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Re: Cheaper bullet for shooting paper

Postby bushmeister » Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:16 pm

wildcatter wrote:I need about 250,000, "Jacketed" .4515" +- .002", really cheap, prolly gov surplus, bullets. ..t


So which 3rd world country upset your apple cart this time? :lol:
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Re: Cheaper bullet for shooting paper

Postby thatguy » Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:12 pm

bushmeister wrote:
wildcatter wrote:I need about 250,000, "Jacketed" .4515" +- .002", really cheap, prolly gov surplus, bullets. ..t


So which 3rd world country upset your apple cart this time? :lol:


im thinking "my poor shoulder" thats a lot of thumping from 'the thumper' LOL

I reckon if you are going to test something.. test it right, and I think 250K would be a pretty good test lol

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Re: Cheaper bullet for shooting paper

Postby wildcatter » Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:02 pm

Actually, 250k is for multiple 6k tests.

I forget what the GI designator is, but when you do a major change to the AR system, the gov requires a 6000rd test to verify the results. If it makes the 6k, everything is certified and good to go.

I'm going to find the absolute high end of the pressure scale, for the 450b. We can't do anything for SAAMI (remember the Hornady spec is ridiculous safe, seems the lawyers won the argument and of course you know how innovative they can be, burp), but for the reloading crowd, we can do allot.

Here's my course of action with all those bullets.

Let me set this up.

First realize, we can do all the hifalutin engineering math fanagalling, to decide what the upper limit actually is, and still be wrong. I have said all along, the models are wrong. The math is not applicable and does not apply to what I do. I've proved it in a number of ways, now I want to do it with real "Industry Acceptable", pressure equipment, which is about to go on-line, here at LeMAG Headquarters. I need those bullets, common guys, find'em for me! I've invited Marty of 458 socom fame, to be a witness and if he don't come, on my dime, I might add, then the world will know that too. Do you get the political intrigue implications?

But I digress..

Pick a number between, 38,000psi (our current std. pressure) and 63,500psi (Which is the factory pressure for the Hornady field ammo 6.5/284 and about the same for the "Out-Of-The-Can", 284 fodder.). Let's say we pick 55,000 psi, for no other reason other than I want too (after reading and understanding this, you may have another idea and I'd like to hear your thinking). After 10-20rds, I'll know if I should continue with the rest of the 6k test, inspecting every couple of three mags after that. If that pressure doesn't work out, I'll have to drop back, pick another number, halfway between 55k and 38k. BUT, If after the initial Tech Inspection says everything was A-OK @ 55k, now you've got to up the pressure, somewhere between 55k and 63.5K, which is 59.25k and fire 6k more rounds and inspect. So you can see, playing this game right away burns up allot of ammo. It matters not what bullet I use, it just has to be loaded to a particular pressure spec and most of all, it must be cheap and it would help immensely, if they were all the same bullet.

After I absolutely know what the bottom line, high-end pressures are, I'll publish the results, where-in, we can then apply those results to any other bullet, staying within the New Pressure Limit Spec. You'll send me 20-50rds (50 is better than 20) of your favorite load and I'll tell everyone what the pressures are, adding to this sites Knowledge Base.

SAAMI will not use +P or +P+ specs any longer, but with empirical data like this, the insurance companies well back outfits like Corbon and others, to duplicate our work. And for guys like "Hooters Rangers" (ok, I can be a bit irreverent too), I envision, two and maybe three LeGendre-Side-Crimps, allowing them to use all manor of wondrous powders (I'm hoping to get to 4198) and they will get the groups to scream perfection. Humm..Performance, WITH Accuracy, now that's something new!! AND, we are going to need the Gunnies Recoil Reduction Science more than ever..

It is my hope, that we are going to see upper limits, that may indeed rival the 458 Winchester Magnum Ft/Lb-Energy Performance! The Nay-Sayers are going to scream their guts out, but I tell you this my Friends, "WE", that is, you and I, are going to exponentially, change the world, wait and see..t
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Re: Cheaper bullet for shooting paper

Postby oldmanjeffers » Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:21 pm

I need a couple of things. I've got to do some proofing, and I need some shooters, that are as loony as they get. If they are not Loony, they will be after I get done with them.


I'm in!

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