CAST BULLETS discussions

Talk about your 450b reloading experience, ask questions, etc...

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Re: CAST BULLETS discussions

Postby Nosparks » Thu May 23, 2013 7:12 pm

I need to do more study on cast and casting bullets, as it seems as a very good way to save money and feed my addiction!!
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Re: CAST BULLETS discussions

Postby wildcatter » Fri May 24, 2013 10:01 am

3rdgeargrndrr wrote:Thanks WC. This was experience only with the Precision polymer coated bullets in 200 and 230 grain, not hard cast. They just havent worked well in MY gun at standard loading data. I tested the same load back to back with the jacketed projectiles.
My guess is the polymer coat shears at speed somewhat like the problem with copper plated bullets at these velocities.
I was really hoping these would work as i have a huge stash of these bullets and they are less expensive and easily available. they do work extremely well in the 45acp with accuracy very similar to copper


Just a thought, what if you were to slow them down and function the weapon manually?? Using something like Trail Boss (there are other choices of Bulky Powders), that will give you a 100% fill and slow speeds. Could make great Plinkers??

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Re: CAST BULLETS discussions

Postby 45-70 shooter » Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:22 pm

Seems like nobody has been talking about cast bullets in the 450 for awhile. Been shooting cast bullets for almost 60 years and they can be tricky little devils, but usually in smaller bores. From 35 caliber on up, I have never had much problem getting rifles to hold 2 moa or better @100 with reasonable loads favoring bullets on the heavy side. Handguns can always equally factory loads at 50 yards or less.

Being a late comer to ARs, before I knew it I had two 15s and one 10. 2 223s, 1 300 Blackout (upper) and a 7.62 NATO. What was missing was a 450 BM.
Finally found one (upper) NIB in of all places Cabela's.

Slapped it my R15 lower (also Bushmaster) with a $200 1-4X "tactical" scope. With a box of gold plated factory ammo, off to the range. Once "on the paper" and cooled off, the first 3 cover leafed and the next 5 went in 1.5".

A set of dies, a 300 gr Lee mold and gas checks were quickly ordered.

I have tried everything I've learned about cast bullets. Sized .451,2,3, 4198, 4227, H110, Lil Gun, plain gas checks, crimp on ones, SAECO lube. LPG. The same bullet will shoot twice as good @50 yards from my 1926 Colt New Sevice Officer's Match ! 5" 5 shot groups @50 yards is the best I've done in the 450.

As the 450BM is almost a ballistic twin to the 460S&W, it's interesting to note that my 10" S&W will shoot the same bullet with the same loads into 1.5"@ 50 yards.

I've seen some discussion about blaming the gas port but after 1000s of cast bullets through an M-1 and several 100 thru a Merkel gas operated 9.3x62 rifle , I tend to doubt that.

I have an NEI 4 cavity 300 gr Keith design plain base which will be the next try.

Anybody find the "magic bullet" yet ? :?: :?:
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Re: CAST BULLETS discussions

Postby wildcatter » Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:51 am

Yea, I wonder too? Magic, bullet?

Perhaps the problem here is in using, the wrong bullet for the twist 1:24? I wonder if using a very light, for caliber, cast bullet, might not help accuracy, say, 200grs or lighter??

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Re: CAST BULLETS discussions

Postby 3rdgeargrndrr » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:09 am

Yes, the twist has probably everything to do with it, but we will see. 460 has a progressive twist to a 1:10, without chrono data, its all mental excercise at this point to figure out the why's.
FWIW, I zero my 460 at 12MOA hi at 400yds iron sights with a 405grain hard cast fun load. By the time the bullet leaves the 12" muzzle, I'm probably really shooting about 40" high, and it hits POI sometimes :D
IMO, the hard cast isnt great in the 450b platform as previously tested over the years,save the powder for the jacketed
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Re: CAST BULLETS discussions

Postby wildcatter » Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:12 pm

IF i remember correctly, James over at TRIDENT. His weapon is a 1:16 twist, which is better, in the accuracy department, with heavy bullets.

Maybe someone with a Trident weapon, or maybe James himself would like to try some lead heavy weights, w/ or wo/gas checkes, out for us!! Say an LBT of +- 350 grains or so, might do the trick (intel wise)??

I have done some 500grainers wo/gas checks and had phenomenal results (accuracy wise). They were pure lead and caused some leading problems, and the 500gr bullets are way into Diminished Returns, which is why I am suggesting a Hard Cast 350gr - 400gr bullet..

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Re: CAST BULLETS discussions

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:43 pm

Midway has 450B brass on sale around $41 a box. FYI.
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Re: CAST BULLETS discussions

Postby 45-70 shooter » Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:03 pm

Such a deal ! $8.00 more for 50 than 460 S&W (also Hornady). It must cost more because it's shorter. :D

It appears nobody has really gotten cast bullets to work, althogh they work fine in every 45 from the ACP to the 45-70 at both lower and higher velocities.

The trail Boss idea might work, but lets be real. You can crank out more shots faster from a 454 Casull lever gun, reload on the fly and they are accurate with full house lead loads. The Buffalo Bore 300 moves out @1650.

Given the very short bore bearing area of the factory jacketed bullet, short may be the answer. I have .452 bullets from 230 to 185 gr in RN and SWC.
Worth a try I guess.
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Re: CAST BULLETS discussions

Postby Siringo » Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:21 pm

I still contend that the main issue is the gas hole size versus the height (length) of the gas check. I would like to revisit lead bullets, especially 400's, but have never been able to find a gas check that was 1/8 inch tall. However, there could also be an issue related to the long free bore in the chamber. I purposely used bullets that measured .453 to minimize gas shooting around the bullet before it had totally entered the rifling.

I still have the bullets where you could see the gas come around the gas check at the gas hole and dislodge the check. Of all the lead bullets I recovered from the berm, NONE had a gas check on them. Versus my 45-70, nearly all of them still had the checks in place. Just my theory.

I had contacted Corbin sometime ago, but it ended up getting into the 1/2 or 1/4 jacket realm --- with a large expenditure of $$$$.
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Re: CAST BULLETS discussions

Postby 45-70 shooter » Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:07 pm

While the gas hole theory must be unique to the 450BM, it's worth consideration. Since plain base bullets can be cast VERY hard, let's explore that avenue before making assumptions about the gas port. The really anal could plug the gas port and shoot it as a clumsy hand operated rifle.

BTW, I have used crimp on gas checks (Ebay) and they all stayed on the bullet when shot into a frozen clay bank. Accuracy was still horrible.

I think the short bearing surface bullet may be the answer. Imitate the jacketed one.
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