284 brass ?

[longrangedog1000yd]

ok i read in another post that sounded like 284 win brass could be made into 450 brass? did a search wouldn't give me anything. so whats the story?

[Hoot]

The search engine here sucks big time. If you use Google and specify with parenthesis, your specific search terms, it will reveal every post within this forum pertinent to the subject. It does a very good job if you tune your search terms to get what you want. Parenthesis work miracles. Please reward my effort locating these for you by promising to set aside enough uninterrupted time to read them end to end. Most are pertinent to the topic and a couple are loosely related, but important nevertheless.

April 29, 2010
http://www.450bushmaster.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=673

June 6, 2010
http://450bushmaster.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=802

June 28, 2010
http://www.450bushmaster.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=883

August 26, 2010
http://450bushmaster.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1026

June 3, 2011
http://www.450bushmaster.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4817

Unfortunately, there is more to it than just cutting the .284 brass to length and sizing them. I personally believe that if you do the work to make 284 brass function properly, they will work better and longer than Hornady brass. Hornady is after all, in the business of selling you more brass. Also unfortunate is the fact that the loads and performance that can be developed from those brass will not necessarily translate to what the rest of the members using Hornady brass can benefit from, due to their differences. For that reason, despite having figured out how to make the cases work and having some on hand, at the ready, I have not permanently gone in that direction. I enjoy experimenting and developing 450b load results that I can share. Then discussing and reading of other member's experience from that information. Without that hook, it would not be nearly as rewarding for me. I might as well have a wildcat spin-off of the 450b. Same reason I have not gone to other barrel manufacturers to get away from the chrome plated chamber and bore, the short gas system, the long bullet jump, etc.

Hoot

[longrangedog1000yd]

thanks for the help Hoot! some pretty good stuff there, but after all that knowledge I think it would be best for me to stick with hornady brass,i think turning necks and fire forming brass for my 243 and 280 ack's is enough for me! got a few boxes of factory stuff ordered from my dealer and one bag coming from midway that should keep my going a while, still aint figured out which bullets to start off with, i kinda thinking a box of barns 325 buster, and a box of swift 265 and on the lite end a box of 225 xpb, now to find some mags!

[Hoot]

For practice, the 225FTX is a great confidence builder as they shoot well, crimp easily into the cannelure and have probable proven the most repeatable results for me though the Barnes 200 and 275 XPBs are right on it's tail. The best part is you get a box of 100 for the price of a box of 50 of the 250 FTX. You can pick up a box of 100 for $25.00. That's $.25 each.

They're my "money shot" loaded ahead of 38gr of Lil Gun and a Rem 7 1/2 primer, seated to almost bury the cannelure and a hard taper crimp (.475) into that cannelure. Very consistent 1" or better groups at 100 yards. No they're not nipping at the heels of blowing up your rifle or melting in flight, but more than adequate for big MN white tails. There's also a second accuracy node at 41gr though they're running hot at that speed.

Look like this after 4) 1 gallon water jugs:



Hoot

[longrangedog1000yd]

OK ive been reading load reports on here for the bigger part of the afternoon and i am more confused than ever, i've never seen a cartridge with this many quarks except for 10mm which i got my 180gr load after a several hundred rounds of aggravating inconsistency with different bullets and sizing and crimps, and with different powders, i now use one bullet and one loading set up for it,i carry this load for hog backup,or whatever else needs needs stopped where it is , as of now im going with the 225 ftx and lill gun for a deer load as per hoots advice, i have had good results with lill gun in a freedom arms 454.going to try the 240 xtp mag for hogs should hold together a little better, would lill gun be the powder for this too? on another note with this hot drought the hogs are easy to find just find some water and they will come! just hard to set there when its 100 with 90% humidity.

[Hoot]

OK ive been reading load reports on here for the bigger part of the afternoon and i am more confused than ever, i've never seen a cartridge with this many quarks except for 10mm which i got my 180gr load after a several hundred rounds of aggravating inconsistency with different bullets and sizing and crimps, and with different powders, i now use one bullet and one loading set up for it,i carry this load for hog backup,or whatever else needs needs stopped where it is , as of now im going with the 225 ftx and lill gun for a deer load as per hoots advice, i have had good results with lill gun in a freedom arms 454.going to try the 240 xtp mag for hogs should hold together a little better, would lill gun be the powder for this too? on another note with this hot drought the hogs are easy to find just find some water and they will come! just hard to set there when its 100 with 90% humidity.

You'll find that it's nigh impossible to beat Lil Gun for almost all the bullets below 300gr and even some of them. Unfortunately, Hodgdon discontinued H4227 when they bought IMR. IMR4227 is not the same, though admittedly, I haven't tried it. I do trust the advice of my local reloading shop guru though. H4227 was one of Hodgdon's Extreme powders. IMR4227 is not. Different formula, but I digress. I use Lil Gun for 200, 225, 230, 240, 250, 275 and though on the fast side, it produces the best results I've gotten with the few 300s I've tried. It fits this caliber to a T.

Hoot

[pitted bore]

longrangedog1000yd-

I can no longer find it linked from the forum, but the long-running calguns 450B thread had a lot of information about the difficulties of modifying 284 brass for use in the 450B.

A couple of off-topic footnotes to Hoot's post:

1) When I've tried to use bullets below 200 grains, Lil'Gun has not been the optimal powder. (The bullets are not optimal either, but it gives geezers something to do in their spare time).

2) The IMR4227 and H4227 story has much internet lore associated with it. An interpretation that seems to fit the available evidence is this: IMR 4227 was made in Canada for at least a couple of decades. H4227 has always been made in Australia. When the Australian manufacturer developed the "Extreme" technology, it was applied to H4227 and Hodgdon listed it as one of their Extreme powders. With the exception of the response to temperature, the two powders did not differ significantly in performance. Reported differences between the two were not greater than lot-to-lot variation within either.

When Hodgdon acquired IMR, because the two powders were so similar, they decided to discontinue one of the two. They chose to stop selling H4227, perhaps for marketing reasons. However, they also decided to put the Australian powder into the IMR containers, and to discontinue the manufacture of 4227 in Canada. As the decision slowly worked its way through the supply chain, one could purchase H4227 and IMR 4227 made in Australia, and IMR 4227 made in Canada. My bottle of IMR4227 purchased on 3 Aug 2010 is marked "Made in Canada". The powder granules are black, rather than the greenish color associated with Extreme powders

My understanding is that when everything shakes down, all available IMR 4227 will be made in Australia and will be an Extreme powder, although perhaps not marketed as such.

--Bob

[Hoot]

longrangedog1000yd-

I can no longer find it linked from the forum, but the long-running calguns 450B thread had a lot of information about the difficulties of modifying 284 brass for use in the 450B.

A couple of off-topic footnotes to Hoot's post:

1) When I've tried to use bullets below 200 grains, Lil'Gun has not been the optimal powder. (The bullets are not optimal either, but it gives geezers something to do in their spare time).

2) The IMR4227 and H4227 story has much internet lore associated with it. An interpretation that seems to fit the available evidence is this: IMR 4227 was made in Canada for at least a couple of decades. H4227 has always been made in Australia. When the Australian manufacturer developed the "Extreme" technology, it was applied to H4227 and Hodgdon listed it as one of their Extreme powders. With the exception of the response to temperature, the two powders did not differ significantly in performance. Reported differences between the two were not greater than lot-to-lot variation within either.

When Hodgdon acquired IMR, because the two powders were so similar, they decided to discontinue one of the two. They chose to stop selling H4227, perhaps for marketing reasons. However, they also decided to put the Australian powder into the IMR containers, and to discontinue the manufacture of 4227 in Canada. As the decision slowly worked its way through the supply chain, one could purchase H4227 and IMR 4227 made in Australia, and IMR 4227 made in Canada. My bottle of IMR4227 purchased on 3 Aug 2010 is marked "Made in Canada". The powder granules are black, rather than the greenish color associated with Extreme powders

My understanding is that when everything shakes down, all available IMR 4227 will be made in Australia and will be an Extreme powder, although perhaps not marketed as such.

--Bob

Anybody out there with a newer bottle before I pick one up on the way home from work this afternoon?

Hoot