Alternate cases for forming 450 Bushmaster

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Alternate cases for forming 450 Bushmaster

Postby boolitschuuter » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:40 pm

The quote is taken from the Ammo availability thread. I figured where I was going was hijacking that one so I thought I'd start a new topic.

Hoot wrote:The 7.5x55 is going to be tricky as it doesn't have a rebated rim like the .284. Hoot


Agreed, however both have a head diameter of .473 measured at the extractor rim. The case would have to be fire formed which i presume is what you were referring to as the tricky part?
The case 7.5 Swiss at the base of the case body (above the extractor groove) is 12.64 mm or .4976 inches. this should not prove to be too much of an issue. The 450 BM resizing die should allow resizing either a modified .284 WIN or 7.5 Swiss. I think it could be formed in a 450 BM resizing die with a spud that bottomed out internally on the case head. Could this also resolve the problem I've read about with .284 WIN cases being too thick and causing bullet seating depth issues? This is of course all speculation on my part. I haven't done anything with this cartridge... yet. :)
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Re: Alternate cases for forming 450 Bushmaster

Postby Hoot » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:40 pm

According to Wikipedia, the 7.5x55 has a rim diameter of .498. That's why I mentioned it. Did they get the dimension wrong? Any 7.5x55 owners out there?

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Re: Alternate cases for forming 450 Bushmaster

Postby wildcatter » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:47 pm

Hoot wrote:According to Wikipedia, the 7.5x55 has a rim diameter of .498. That's why I mentioned it. Did they get the dimension wrong? Any 7.5x55 owners out there?

Hoot


OK, I don't get it yet, are we looking for alternate case to form 450b's. If that is the case, the cases already describes wont work because oru case is rebated and the body dia is .5", the 30-06 based cases have a rim dia of about .473", which is good, but the body dia's are also about .473", we need .5"..

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Re: Alternate cases for forming 450 Bushmaster

Postby Hoot » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:53 pm

wildcatter wrote:
Hoot wrote:According to Wikipedia, the 7.5x55 has a rim diameter of .498. That's why I mentioned it. Did they get the dimension wrong? Any 7.5x55 owners out there?

Hoot


OK, I don't get it yet, are we looking for alternate case to form 450b's. If that is the case, the cases already describes wont work because oru case is rebated and the body dia is .5", the 30-06 based cases have a rim dia of about .473", which is good, but the body dia's are also about .473", we need .5"..

..t


In the other thread boolitschuuter referred to, he was concerned about availability of either Hornady 450 Bushmaster brass and 284 Winchester and was musing about alternate cases.

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Re: Alternate cases for forming 450 Bushmaster

Postby boolitschuuter » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:27 pm

Hoot wrote:According to Wikipedia, the 7.5x55 has a rim diameter of .498. That's why I mentioned it. Did they get the dimension wrong? Any 7.5x55 owners out there?

Hoot

Yes, that's correct, we're on the same page. Same place I got my info, I just didn't round it up. so we are only talking 2 thousandths (.002) difference between 7.5 Swiss and 450 BM case head diameters. I just need to get a set of dies, some 7.5 Swiss cases, a 12 pack of beer then go see my machinist Brother in law. :)
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Re: Alternate cases for forming 450 Bushmaster

Postby Hoot » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:55 pm

boolitschuuter wrote:
Hoot wrote:According to Wikipedia, the 7.5x55 has a rim diameter of .498. That's why I mentioned it. Did they get the dimension wrong? Any 7.5x55 owners out there?

Hoot

Yes, that's correct, we're on the same page. Same place I got my info, I just didn't round it up. so we are only talking 2 thousandths (.002) difference between 7.5 Swiss and 450 BM case head diameters. I just need to get a set of dies, some 7.5 Swiss cases, a 12 pack of beer then go see my machinist Brother in law. :)


Sadly no. Their is a large difference between .473 and .498 Rim Diameter. Yes, the base size, above the extraction groove is almost the same. You would have to make two cuts on a lathe for each case. The rim diameter and the extraction groove. That's a lot of touch labor, not including fire forming each case. Just trying to save you a headache in the making.

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Re: Alternate cases for forming 450 Bushmaster

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:43 pm

Has anybody considered price differences? Just how popular is the 7.5 Swiss? What about web thickness and dimensions? Primers?
I'm sure that Tim, (WC), would have given us any Intel on alternative cases years ago. He is the King Julien of the 450 Bushmaster and knows the case inside and out, up and down and sideways. The parent cartridge for Thumper is the 284 Winchester. That's our fall back. But is there a Parent cartridge for the 284 Win?
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Re: Alternate cases for forming 450 Bushmaster

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:45 pm

PS.
Hoot I truly dig that new Avatar!!
I may have to get creative and upgrade mine.
Okay, back to the topic.
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Re: Alternate cases for forming 450 Bushmaster

Postby Hoot » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:37 pm

Texas Sheepdawg wrote:PS.
Hoot I truly dig that new Avatar!!
I may have to get creative and upgrade mine.
Okay, back to the topic.


Yeah, not everything that happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas. The only place where frumpy ole Hoot got hit on by a lady of night. In the airport no less! :lol:

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Re: Alternate cases for forming 450 Bushmaster

Postby pitted bore » Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:52 am

Making 450B brass from 7.5x55 brass

284 brass has been used to make 7.5x55 Swiss for decades, ever since the 284 was introduced. The extractor rim of the 284 is smaller in diameter than the rim of the 7.5x55, but it seems to work adequately in Swiss rifles. What's proposed in this thread is making reverse conversion, from 7.5x55 to 284, and then lopping off the shoulder and neck to end up with a case 1.700 inches in length.

To check on some dimensions, I dug out my 7.5x55 brass and made a couple of measurements. (I used to shoot my long M1911 in old military matches; it wasn't as accurate as the later K31, but with my eyes the long sight radius made up for that.) I have some 7.5x55 brass made by Norma, and some with a Grafs headstamp, probably made by Prvi Partisan (PPY). I found the following diameters, in inches:

Norma: Rim=0.496 Head=0.490
Grafs: Rim=0.496 Head=0.495

Nominally, these two dimensions of the 7.5x55 are supposed to be: Rim=0.498, Head=0.493. These dimensions are maximal; most cartridges have acceptable tolerances of -0.010" for rim diameters, and -0.008 for body diameters. So, minimum acceptable dimensions are Rim=0.488, Head 0.485.

The rim diameters of the Grafs and Norma brass are within specification. The head of the Norma brass is also OK. The Graf brass head is 0.002 too large. Fortunately the chamber on my Swiss rifle is generous.

Here's the case head problem with using the 7.5x55 brass for the 450B, illustrated:
.
head-comp.png
head-comp.png (9.63 KiB) Viewed 19099 times
.
As Hoot warns, to use the 7.5x55 brass for forming 450B brass, it will be necessary to turn about 0.020 off the rim diameter of each piece of 7.5x55 brass to obtain a diameter of 0.473. The extractor groove will likely be ok.

The head of the 7.5x55 brass will bulge a bit when fire formed in a 450B chamber. The head of the Grafs brass is larger than specifications, and that makes it a little bit better for the conversion to 450B. There will be a notable bulge near the case head, above the web, when the 7.5x55 case is fire-formed.

The 7.5x55 brass uses a LR primer, which may or may not cause problems, depending on the bullet and powder combinations.

More on this conversion follows in the next post.

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edited to repair php code & incomplete sentences
Last edited by pitted bore on Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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