Live rounds not extracting

[Hoot]

Ok, with the extractor removed from the bolt it will go fully into battery on both an empty piece of brass aswell as a loaded round. I removed the black donut from the extractor spring and attempted to chamber a round again with the extractor reinstalled using just the extra power spring and standard black spring insert.
I had to push it a pit to get it to chamber, round hung in chamber, extractor not letting go.

Tried the extractor spring and the insert the rifle came with, same results, round hung in chamber, extractor nor releasing the case rim.

Brass used in the test was full length sized, trimmed to length, camphered and deburred. Case length empty, 1.0690, no additional steps were taken with the brass.

Is the extractor pushing the brass into the chamber befor it clicks over the rim?

Thanks to Commander Faschisto, Pitted Bore, Hoot and Wildcatter for all your help with this.

Some times the extractor rides up on the rim ever so slightly even though the hook is past it. This causes the outside of the extractor to bind against the barrel extension. The fix is simply relieving a small amount of the extractor shank right behind the hook, so that it rides a small amount lower. I seem to recall someone else experiencing this and Wildcatter walked him through the solution. I you were using .284 Win brass, I'd expect that problem, but not Hornady 450 Bushmaster brass, with it's smaller diameter rim.

Do you envision what I'm referring to with the extractor? Once the hook passes the rim and drops into the extraction groove, the rim rides on the extractor shank just behind it. you just need to relieve the shank a small amount with a stone. Some times, just polishing it on a wheel will suffice. I'm assuming the height of the hook is not too great and it is never getting past the rim and dropping into the extraction groove.

Hoot

[mjbennett]

Thanks Hoot, I had never even thought of that. When I have more time I'll whittle on it a bit and see if I can get it working.

[AR_Hunter]

I had the same problem and Hoot went above and beyond to help as usual. He even shipped me an extractor to help diagnose the problem. As it turned out, I had to file some of the extractor hook also. It has been flawless ever since. Best of luck!

[wildcatter]

Alrighty then.

Let's make sure. The bolt is completely disassembled. The Extractor, Ejector, and the Firing Pin have been removed, right? Now, gently placing the the a resized 1.700" (be exact here) long empty brass (Hoots suggestion) into the chamber, so that the lip of the cartridge just, again gently meets the bottom of the chamber, so as to not run past the chamber lip. With the bolt placed back into the carrier, very gently put the BCG back into the upper, until the bolt face barely meets the face of the cartridge and I mean, just barely, otherwise the case mouth will over ride the chamber lip.

If you do this and see that the rear of the BCG is in the same position, in relation to the upper, as when this is done with an empty chamber, then most likely your loading procedures are suspect..

..t

[Hoot]

A few points:

Good luck finding a piece of brass that is 1.700. If you have a Stoney Point / Hornady OAL Gauge case, that should be 1.700.
Also, FWIW, my chamber measures 1.706, so there is some manufacturing tolerances at play as well. Perhaps that's why my hook has never succeeded in extracting an unfired round (see earlier post).

Hoot

[mjbennett]

Just to update, I noticed a very signifigant amount of finish wear on the outside of the extractor beginning about even with the rear of the bolt lugs. I took some very fine grit emmery to it and it now extracts a loaded round from the chamber. I just hope I didn't take off to much and weaken it. I'll have to give it the acid test this weekend when I'm off work.

[wildcatter]

Just to update, I noticed a very signifigant amount of finish wear on the outside of the extractor beginning about even with the rear of the bolt lugs. I took some very fine grit emmery to it and it now extracts a loaded round from the chamber. I just hope I didn't take off to much and weaken it. I'll have to give it the acid test this weekend when I'm off work.

Ahh-Hah, maybe you are hot after the cure. U prolly didn't weaken the extractor but hopefully you got the clearence you needed..

..t

[Hoot]

Just to update, I noticed a very signifigant amount of finish wear on the outside of the extractor beginning about even with the rear of the bolt lugs. I took some very fine grit emmery to it and it now extracts a loaded round from the chamber. I just hope I didn't take off to much and weaken it. I'll have to give it the acid test this weekend when I'm off work.

Hindsight being 20/20, taking it off the outside would have less of a weakening effect than where it's riding on the rim. A lot more stress on the inside than the outside and hardening being what it is, better to remove it from the strong side. Good job!

Now, you got me wanting to pursue why mine would never reliably extract unfired rounds. I feel the distinct click as the bolt rotates into battery, so I believe the extractor is picking up the rim. The spring sure feel powerful enough to hang on. The maddening part is as I said, when I tip the rifle up with the bolt back, the unfired round falls out on it's own. With my roomy chamber, perhaps the case is getting slightly cockeyed when the extractor pulls back on it, making it bind. Who knows? It certainly has never had a problem extracting a spent round. It's 8 below as I type this and still a lot of winter left for indoor projects. Perhaps I'll pursue the extraction issue if I can tear myself away from playing with the lathe I got for Christmas.

Hoot

[mjbennett]

Hurray, it works. Took it out to the range, beautiful 70+ degree day in the texas panhandle thursday and fired some factory Hornady and some reloaded 300gr xtp mags. Fed, fired, extracted and ejected perfectly.
Thanks again for all the help in trouble shooting this.

[wildcatter]

Is that not a great feeling, you trouble-shot the problem and fixed it!!

Good Go 'Ol Man!!

..t