Live rounds not extracting

[mjbennett]

Basically what the title says. I have issue with my reloads extracting without firing them, weather it occurs from a dud load or if I chamber a round and then do not fire it I cannot get them out of the chamber without alot of cussin' and frustration from me. I've tapped them out with a cleaning rod from the muzzle end, not a good idea I know, dug a trench with the butt stock and pryed the bolt carrier back to remove the rounds from the chamber. Those removed by tapping the bolt carrier back come out about .05" +/- longer than they went in. Seems like the bullets are jumping into the rifling just enough to get good and stuck.

What could be causing this? Is my brass just not holding the bullets as I suspect?

All of my loads are to the data given in the Hornady manual, tapper crimp is as far as I can safely go to my knowledge, .474 at the mouth. I've even tried undersizing the mouth with a 45 acp sizing die to the depth the bullet will be seated in the case, running it thorough the expander die seating and then crimping with the same results.

I don't want to give up this rifle but the frustration it's causing me makes me want to clamp the barrel in my bench vise and bend it at a 90 degree angle.

Can anyone help me trouble shoot this issue? insite from more experienced people is always appreciated.
Thanks,
Matt

[commander faschisto]

Do a search function here on the subject of "thunk test"....450b headspaces on the case mouth (straight-walled case...) and it is possible to over-crimp just a smidge when reloading, and the bolt will fling the case past the headspace ridge in the chamber. I'm sure the experts will chime in here soon, too, but that's probably what's going on....

[pitted bore]

Matt-
Does the problem occur with factory rounds?

If yes, then there is likely a problem with your rifle. I think there have been reports of similar rifle problems on the forum.

If no, then the problem is to find out how your reloads differ from the factory cartridges.

What bullets are you putting in your handloads?

--Bob

[mjbennett]

I've been reloading 250gr FTX. I've also tried a few 300gr XTP mag rounds. I will check for the thunk test.
Finding some factory ammo right now would be nice.

[Hoot]

I've been reloading 250gr FTX. I've also tried a few 300gr XTP mag rounds. I will check for the thunk test.
Finding some factory ammo right now would be nice.

IMHO, if the bullets are pulling forward then chances are they are thunking fine. My guess is that there is insufficient crimp tension and when the bullets pull forward, they are engaging the lands and getting stuck tight enough to resist extracting. Easy test. Take some reloads that are seated to the correct length, IE not already pulled out a little and ease them into battery. If they extract easily then, that would confirm that they are pulling into the lands when slammed forward.

My own rifle, regardless of whether I ease it forward into battery or slam it, will not extract unfired rounds to this day. Once the bolt is retracted, I need to tilt the muzzle up and then they fall out. That's a different condition and you may find after solving the bullet pulling from insufficient crimp, that you suffer from that as well. The latter problem is due to the extractor hook not fully engaging the case rim. In my case, it's one of those "some day, I'm going to have a look at that" problems. Two years later and "some day" has still not come. I just tilt the muzzle up and let it fall out.

Deal with the suspected insufficient crimp tension first and take the possibility of the hook not picking up the rim later. The first condition is much more serious. IE, accurately measure your taper crimp at the mouth and tell us what the mouth diameter is after crimping. It is important to measure it as close to the mouth lip as possible, with as accurate a device as possible.

Hoot

[wildcatter]

Thunk Test, Thunk Test, Thunk Test, It "Sounds like you may have a reloading procedure, out of whack?

Does the reloaded round actually have a resounding "Thunk", when you drop it into the barrel? If not, you have a good starting point?

Get back to us on the question??

..t

[mjbennett]

Ok, having gone over the 15 rounds I have loaded at the moment, all of the 300gr xtp mags, 3 did not thunk. I checked the crimp on all 15, crimps range from .474 to .476 on all rounds. I suspect the differences in crimp is due to some brass not needing trimming and others did, if it was under trim length when I was checking I left it as is. I know that isn't going to lead to the best accuracy but for now it's not an issue to me till I get function. The cartridge OAL is set to 2.065" Some vary +/- 1 or 2 thousandths, the longest being 2.066.

The only difference I can see from the rounds that thunk and those that do not is the no thunkers are a bit wasp wasted from over insertion into the 45 acp sizing die. Could be the cases are a little bulged just below the waste and they aren't

None of the rounds I tried to ease into battery would even go into battery. The locking lugs on the bolt would line up the the lugs on the barrel extension but not go fully into rotate and lock. Dropping the bolt by racking the charging handle or through the bolt release resulted in the same. My extractor is holding firm on the case rim. There is no way to get it to release. I had in the past had issue with the extractor not grabbing correctly, I upgraded the extractor spring and put a black donut around the spring aswell, that sucker does not let go now. I tried a few sized and trimmed pieces of empty brass aswell, even they hang in the chamber, maybe I've found my problem.

Could my chamber be out of spec? I may have just been very lucky not to have had this thing blow up in my face yet.

[wildcatter]

Ok, we need to go slow here.

Take the Upper off the Lower.

Now, take the bolt apart. Without the extractor/ejector/firing pin assembled on/in the bolt. In other words, leave the extractor/ejector/firing pin, off the bolt. Now, assemble the bolt carrier group. Now gently chamber the rounds, manually. When you put the BCG back in, so that the bolt face just, again gently, meets the cartridge face. Does the bolt carrier go flush with the outside, rear, of the upper. If You are not sure, with the chamber empty, put the BCG into battery and notice where the rear of the BCG is, in relation to the rear of the upper. When you do this with the cartridge lightly placed into the chamber, the BCG better be in the same position, that was noticed when the chamber was empty.

In all of this be careful not to try to seat the cartridge, which is why I use the word gently.

Now, Return and Report..

..t

[Hoot]

How does the rifle respond to chambering resized empty brass prior to the TNT process which I once again assume is after you do a full length resize with the Hornady 450 Bushmaster die first. I say that because you can not skip full length resizing. Otherwise, the bottom half of the case will bind up.

Hoot

[mjbennett]

Ok, with the extractor removed from the bolt it will go fully into battery on both an empty piece of brass aswell as a loaded round. I removed the black donut from the extractor spring and attempted to chamber a round again with the extractor reinstalled using just the extra power spring and standard black spring insert.
I had to push it a pit to get it to chamber, round hung in chamber, extractor not letting go.

Tried the extractor spring and the insert the rifle came with, same results, round hung in chamber, extractor nor releasing the case rim.

Brass used in the test was full length sized, trimmed to length, camphered and deburred. Case length empty, 1.0690, no additional steps were taken with the brass.

Is the extractor pushing the brass into the chamber befor it clicks over the rim?

Thanks to Commander Faschisto, Pitted Bore, Hoot and Wildcatter for all your help with this.