So whats wrong with the Hornady Die set?

[norsemen308]

I see lots of people are using a modified Lee die for crimps, I tried the search function but it keeps telling me "iam to common" in the search. Obviously this is because you guys are not getting a tight enough crimp. But Can someone walk me through the good the bad and the ugly and any common tricks? It would be awesome if we had a sticky from Hoot or Wild cat about that!

thanks!

[bushmeister]

I've had no issues with the Hornady die set for reloading factory reloads with great accuracy. I'll let those who know more explain why they use alternatives.

[Colohunter]

There isn't anything wrong with the Hornady die set. The Lee die set is used to add a crimp to the side of the case that allows for more tension and a more consistent ignition. Here is Hoot's write up on modifying the Lee die:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=685#p4569

That should answer a lot of questions about what it is and how it works.

[wildcatter]

Yup, the Hornady dies are the best we have. The only idea about a LeGendre Side Crimp, south of the case mouth, is an effort to make some powders more efficient. You will be very happy with the Hornady Dies and they will do maybe 99% of the things you want to do. The guys that are using the side crimp are One (1) Percenters. If you are relatively new to reloading the LSC is probably not something you want to experiment with until you get much more experience, the Hornady Dies will serve you well..

..t

[Jim in Houston]

There isn't anything wrong with the Hornady die set. The Lee die set is used to add a crimp to the side of the case that allows for more tension and a more consistent ignition. Here is Hoot's write up on modifying the Lee die:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=685#p4569

That should answer a lot of questions about what it is and how it works.

In addition to instructions for modifying the Lee die, Hoot has also written up a short procedure on how to use the FCD die to get the side crimp. He has chosen not to post this so far (I got it by PM after I ordered a set of modified dies from him and had no clue on how to use them), but if you order a set of dies and ask him nicely, he may do the same for you. Or he may post his instructions on the board. Or with his permission, I will post what he sent me.

Waiting, waiting, waiting . . .

[Hoot]

...snip...
In addition to instructions for modifying the Lee die, Hoot has also written up a short procedure on how to use the FCD die to get the side crimp. He has chosen not to post this so far (I got it by PM after I ordered a set of modified dies from him and had no clue on how to use them), but if you order a set of dies and ask him nicely, he may do the same for you. Or he may post his instructions on the board. Or with his permission, I will post what he sent me.

Waiting, waiting, waiting . . .

I done forgot what I sent you Jim. By all means re-post it.

Hoot

[Jim in Houston]

I have Hoot' s instructions on another computer, but will get them up in the near future.

[Jim in Houston]

I think I forgot to post the operating instructions for using the Lee FCD die to get a side crimp. Here they are - but all I did was edit what Hoot sent me - he gets the credit.

Using the Lee FCD Die for Side-Crimping the BM450

Yeah, there probably should be a how-to thread on them, but I'm reluctant to write one because no doubt, Wildcatter will wade in and contradict me or muddy it up with useless glad-handing. I know, I'm being childish...

This is how I set up a run:

1. Have some brass not worthy for reloading for whatever reason, handy to serve as test indicators and a Sharpie.

2. Run the set nut on the FCD up as far as possible. You can get them up a little further if you put them on upside down.

3. With the shell holder in the ram, run it up all the way and screw the die in until it contacts the shell holder.

4. Retract the ram a little and screw the FCD down one revolution.

5. Looking down from the top, at the collet fingers inside the FCD, run the ram back up all the way and you will observe the collet fingers constrict a little toward the center at the top of the stroke. Repeat screwing the FCD down further until the collet fingers do not constrict any further and the gaps between them are closed.

It doesn't hurt to cut some thin strips of paper towel and pull them between the gaps in the fingers with the collet relaxed from time to time, to get any junk out from between them. Do not spray degreaser into the FCD to clean it, or immerse it in a cleaning tank. There is MoS grease inside where the wedges of the collet fingers engage the wedges of the body. It keep the collet from seizing. You don't want to wash it off. Shooting a little compressed air down inside to blow out any debris is fine

6. Having now set up the FCD, mark up the last 1/4 inch of one of the test cases with the sharpie. Put it into the shell holder and raise the ram just enough to see and feel the collet fingers begin to engage the case. Don't use any more pressure than needed to imprint the sharpie ink and you'll be able to reuse the case. That may take some practice. Run the ram back down and inspect the case to see where the crimp line is located. If it's where you want it to be, lock down the set nut and you're ready to process your preloaded rounds.

7. Taper crimp all the rounds after you apply the FCD and don't taper crimp them as heavily as when you are using just a taper crimp alone. It mainly serves to de-flare the case mouth.

8. If you need to move the crimp to be closer to the mouth, measure the amount with a calliper and use the shim washer, or combination of them to get that change in distance. It may take a try or two to get the combination figured out, so always have the sharpie and test cases close at hand. When you add a shim, you need to repeat the set up procedure. The end of the bottom of the collet engages the shell holder when you run the ram up and presses the collet up into the FCD body where the wedges of the fingers and body force them to deflect inward. That's how it works. If you add a shim, it's like screwing the die body down past where the fingers are fully engaged, so you need to back out the die to offset the change in height. The shell case has no bearing upon how the FCD mechanics work. Again, when you get the crimp located where you want it to be, screw down the lock nut. When using shims to move the location of the crimp, you have to slide them down over each round before you crimp it and remove them when you pull the finished round out. It adds a step to the reloading process, but that's how it's done. The alternative would be to have several modified FCDs cut to preset lengths and just use the appropriate one for the crimp location you need. That gets expensive, but it eliminates the need for shimming.

As you said, playing with it will give you a better understanding of how these factors interact. If I was not clear on something, please ask more questions. Having covered the "Lion's share" of the process, the answers will not be so long.

John (“Hoot”)

[Hoot]

Haven't seen that in a long time, but it pretty much sums up the process. One clarification to Step 5 though. Those instructions were originally for Jim's die that I had made for him. I put the MoS grease inside of it. It normally comes from the factory with absolutely no lubrication that I can tell. If you lube yours, the same advice applies. Make sure any lubricant you may apply between the collet and the die body, does not slip through the spaces between the fingers and contaminate your case. We have enough of a challenge keeping the cases from backing out of the chamber without adding lubricant to the equation.

Hoot

[Texas Sheepdawg]

These posts for the Modded Die are stickied. They are in the top ten in The Reloading for the 450 Bushmaster sub forum.
Here is another thread on the issue.
http://www.450bushmaster.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=95