Best hunting projectile for 450BM

[ARconnect]

Anyone ever try (or even hear of) the Xtreme Penetrator from Lehigh Defense? They have a solid brass, 245 grn, .452 bullet on their site intended for the 450b. Their theory is along the lines of what I have read Wildcatter profess - that a flat nose, non-expanding bullet will disrupt more tissue in a .45 cal than an expanding 30 cal will. They show a ballistics gel comparison of the Xtreme Penetrator 45ACP to a Hornady Critical Duty 45 Auto, if you are interested. http://www.lehighdefense.com/pages/xtreme-penetrator (don't know if I did this right, but you could clip the url address from here and paste into your browser).

[Texas Sheepdawg]

Ooooooooooooooh..... Those look downright wicked. Ummm. Somebody buy me some to test! I'm broke! LOL. I'll tell ya what, those things may be pretty hard hitting, but how accurate are they? If anyone has tested these, for Pete's Sake, post a range report!!!

[Kiwi Greg]

They would be awesome.

It looks like they saw a #3 or 4 Philips head screw driver & thought "I wonder if"

Correct me If I'm wrong as I have shot very few animals with the 450 BM but the 250 FTX tends to go where ever it wants after impact & terminal performance can be erratic ?

[ARconnect]

[quote="Kiwi Greg"]They would be awesome.

It looks like they saw a #3 or 4 Philips head screw driver & thought "I wonder if"

So... you're thinking that rather than "Driving Tacks", you may take up Driving Screws"? A right hand twist should do it.

They are definitely expensive. However, if the theory of a flat nose bullet (or, in this case a "Cross Top" bullet) and tissue disruption is correct, you should get the toughness and penetration of a solid copper round, and not have to worry about failure to expand at lower velocities that some tests on this site have indicated for the Barnes XPBs.

I'd be interested to know what Wildcatter thinks about it, in theory, at least.

[ARconnect]

They would be awesome.

It looks like they saw a #3 or 4 Philips head screw driver & thought "I wonder if"

Correct me If I'm wrong as I have shot very few animals with the 450 BM but the 250 FTX tends to go where ever it wants after impact & terminal performance can be erratic ?

To respond to the other part of your post, I don't have any experience with terminal performance on game with the FTX - I hunt in a non-lead state. However, I could see in theory, where this may be a likely scenario, as far as erratic path in terminal ballistics. These are relatively short and fat bullets. The water jug test bullets and other recovered bullets we have seen on this site, show a remainder that is greater in diameter than in length with the lead core projectiles. Couple that unstable shape with varying densities of tissue - hide, muscle, bone, sinew, etc, and you could have a recipe for an erratic path. What has been reported regarding terminal ballistics with these bullets, however, does not support that theory. Many on this site have reported DRT performance with the FTX.

[Hoot]

To respond to the other part of your post, I don't have any experience with terminal performance on game with the FTX - I hunt in a non-lead state. However, I could see in theory, where this may be a likely scenario, as far as erratic path in terminal ballistics. These are relatively short and fat bullets. The water jug test bullets and other recovered bullets we have seen on this site, show a remainder that is greater in diameter than in length with the lead core projectiles. Couple that unstable shape with varying densities of tissue - hide, muscle, bone, sinew, etc, and you could have a recipe for an erratic path. What has been reported regarding terminal ballistics with these bullets, however, does not support that theory. Many on this site have reported DRT performance with the FTX.

IMHO, for whitetails, I don't think you can beat the Barnes 200gr XPB "Deathstar"!



However, even those grappling hooks stray. 3 years ago this coming November, I shot a young nubbin buck broadside at around 50 yards. He was walking right to left and despite trying for a through-and-through, it went in right behind the left shoulder, but strayed slightly left and hit dead center on the right shoulder removing the entire leg and leaving it hanging by some hide. Ruined a lot of meat, but at least there was no lead pieces in my food. I can't say that for regular copper clad, lead core bullets. Nothing worse than enjoying a grilled strak and spitting out bits of lead that you notice. Worries one about those that went unnoticed. For a copper only state or just personal preference, its worth getting a reloading setup if for no other reason than for loading those Barnes. Before that, I carried the 200 FTX, but never dropped the hammer on any deer with it. Plenty of other calibers, just snake-bit when carrying the 450b. My longer range whitetail upper I take along is a 6.5 Grendel. I load it with 120gr Barnes TTSX for hunting. Again no luck when I carried it. My success rate plummeted when I started taking my Dad with me. He did well, so that was its own reward.

Hoot

[Al in Mi]

Look a lot like the old Devel bullets we used in the Savage ML when they first came out, thou I think they were a powdered metal. Dunno what it was about the nose of those things but man did they lay the smack down on deer.

[ARconnect]

The whole reason I have stepped up to the 450b is I want more frontal area and a larger cavity if I end up using hollow point bullets. I have been a died in the wool bolt rifle shooter all my days of hunting (about 35 years). .243 Win. at first, which was deadly with a Remington Cor Loct, or a Nosler Partition, then to a 7mm Mag - mostly Partitions. But when CA went non-lead in the south half of the state, I switched to Barnes TSX. Problem is, my 7 mag has a barrel twist for "Heavy for Caliber" bullets - we all remember Craig Bottington - and won't stabilize anything under 175 grains. The TSX is available in 175 grn. but the terminal ballistics were terrible. I shot right through 2 deer, never found more than 2 drops of blood, and no telling how far they went before they expired. I hit one four times on a Colorado Mule Deer hunt in 2009 before he went down. Thank God it was the beginning of the rut and he was too tuned in on some does to notice I was perforating him. I understand the TTSX's terminal ballistics are supposed to be better, but the heaviest it comes is 160 grn. Once I decide more frontal area is what I needed, I looked for a .444 Marlin without much luck - I wanted a SS with laminate stock. They are kind of like hen's teeth.

A friend of mine - Army Ranger Vet. - introduced me to the AR platform a couple of years ago. Finally talked me into buying one once the prices came out of the stratosphere, and next thing you know, I have three. When I found out a 450b upper would fit on my AR-15 lower, and I could order the upper without going through an FFL dealer, I was intrigued. When I found that the .450b exterior ballistics were similar to the .444 Marlin, I was sold. After reading the great posts, and all the testing people have done on this site, I am convinced I made the right choice.

Now, it is just a matter of finding the right bullet. I have bought some 200 grn. Barnes XPBs and some 225 grn. hollow points by Copper Only Projectiles. Since I have shot fairly flat shooting bolt guns all my life, I am leaning toward the lighter bullets in the .450 lineup, even though I hunt the Sierras where cover is fairly dense and I have never bee presented with a shot over 200 yards (I used to hunt the Diablo Range where 300 and 400 yard shots were common). My tendencies are still toward the flattest trajectory I can get. I sight my rifles for MPBR so I don't have to calculate, or guess, hold-over at the critical moment - one less thing to worry about. And, if the target is beyond my MPBR, I figure I have a little time to estimate.

I see on here that others have had good performance with the 275 grn. XPBs, and that they are less finicky regarding neck tension, but I am going to try to make the 200 grn. pills work. I like the idea Hoot wrote about regarding pre-tensioning the necks with a 45 Colt or .45 ACP die. I think I have one, or the other, or maybe both, that I inherited from an old shooter friend that has gone on to happier hunting grounds.

[ARconnect]

A note on the Xtreme Penetrator round I mentioned earlier: I ran across a review on Youtube of a guy testing out their 9mm, 115 grn. round (loaded ammo from LeHigh, not hand rolled). He chrono'd the rounds at about 1250 fps, average.

He ran two tests, The first one through 32 inches of the clear ballistics gel with 4 water jugs behind it for back up. He fired, from a pistol (4 to 5 inch barrel) form 10 feet away. First two shots went through 32 inches of the gel, all four water jugs and out into is yard (he recovered one). Then he put a steel plate after the jugs, which stopped the third bullet.

Second test, he used a more dense ballistics gel at 24 inches and four water jugs backed with the steel plate. Again, the bullet stopped at the plate.

The only marks on the recovered bullets were the nose denting from the plate, and the one he recovered from the yard was flawless except for the rifling marks. The wound channels in the ballistics gel were fairly impressive for a non-expanding bullet that didn't deform at all - they varied from about 1 to 2 inches along the channel. Then he shot the gel through 4 layers of denim - if I remember correctly, that bullet didn't make it all the way to the plate.

It seems the Xtreme Penetrator is aptly named, but may be a bit of an over-achiever for deer sized game. Of course, you might be alright if you only shoot at large deer wearing denim jackets. But then the jacket would cover up the Crossman tattoo on their shoulder.

[Al in Mi]

Dunno if there are any gains to be had over the XPB, but two bullets that shot great from my 460 Encore rifle last year were the 250gr Hornady Monoflex and the Barnes 250gr TEZ, both are muzzleloader bullets. I never had a chance to hair test them, but I've seen enough recovered pics and they do expand!!

Barnes has a TMZ which is a boat tail also but the MZ might be a better pick as it may allow a bit more room for powder seeing it doesn't have a tip and we are limited for mag length.