cutting edge bullets?

Talk about your 450b reloading experience, ask questions, etc...

Moderator: MudBug

Forum rules
Please try and keep it safe!

This information is the responsibility of the community, not the forum. 450bushmaster.net is not responsible if you blow yourselves up.

cutting edge bullets?

Postby Stealthshooter » Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:20 pm

Stealthshooter
 
Posts: 508
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:50 pm

Re: cutting edge bullets?

Postby Al in Mi » Thu Aug 27, 2015 4:15 am

first I seen of them, that 160gr looks interesting even thou they are a bit expensive.

thx for the link!
User avatar
Al in Mi
 
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:24 am

Re: cutting edge bullets?

Postby coyote wacker » Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:47 am

I use a lot of CEB bullets in several calibers, seeing they had a muzzleloader bullet in .452 with a sabot. I contacted Dan in March to see if could be used in 450 BM, with a yes answer it was listed with out a sabot in there Flat Base section bullets...

Right now I'am working on loads with the CEB 160 gr. in a Bushmaster 20" upper...

Choice of powder is Lil'Gun ... I'am getting a small spot size of a BB on rim of carbon was 1/4 of rim at starting loads 38 gr....right now I'am at MAX recommended by CEB 40.5gr....still some room for more powder....if I had a bolt gun I would be a little braver....

One thing I've found out about Lil'Gun is it doesn't like to be compressed...went it is compressed you get little to no increase in velocity...

Primer Remington 7 1/2 looks like it was shot in a 38 wadcutter load...

Getting 2670 fps at 15 ft...20 fps extreme spread...accuracy at 100 yards is under 1 1/4" with 5 shot groups...

CEB bullets are a little pricy...what I do is find a cheaper bullet that weights the same or close to work up a load...back off a little on powder and work a load with the CEB...get both to shoot to about same point... the cheaper bullet plinking and such...save CEB for hunting and checking zero...
coyote wacker
 
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 6:45 am

Re: cutting edge bullets?

Postby Hoot » Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:50 am

Consider trying Alliant 2400 powder instead. A little bit faster than Lil Gun and more energy per grain. One of my first experiments back in 2010 was 200gr FTX and 2400. It was right on the border of too fast for a 200gr, but I bet a 160 would fall into it's sweet zone. I tried some COP 160gr bullets with 2400 but the QC was so bad on the bullets that I could not get good results. Some were as small as .4465 diameter. :roll:

Hoot
In Theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In Practice, there is.
User avatar
Hoot
 
Posts: 5083
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:34 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: cutting edge bullets?

Postby coyote wacker » Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:50 pm

Hoot...I do have some 2400 ...need to give it a try.....

This is what CEB sent me for data...



Cartridge : .450 Bushmaster
Bullet : .452, 160, CutEdge-HGHP 45 160
Useable Case Capaci: 42.304 grain H2O = 2.747 cm≥
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.250 inch = 57.15 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 35000 psi, or 241 MPa

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 100 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

65 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 95%. These powders have been skipped.

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Hodgdon Lil'Gun 100.0 40.5 2.63 2617 95.4 34324 3503 0.945 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 296 98.4 41.2 2.67 2575 85.3 35000 3490 0.959 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H110 98.4 41.2 2.67 2530 88.7 35000 3299 0.970 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R910 100.0 36.0 2.33 2526 95.8 33387 3194 0.962
PB Clermont PCL 512 95.0 35.5 2.30 2504 94.9 35000 3036 0.970 ! Near Maximum !
Nitrochemie A/S 0200 100.0 39.0 2.53 2372 81.7 30522 2950 1.031
Accurate 5744 100.0 36.5 2.36 2362 76.8 33161 2874 1.008
ADI AR 2205 100.0 37.1 2.40 2330 86.1 33229 2692 1.015
Vihtavuori N110 100.0 33.1 2.14 2301 90.2 25666 2831 1.082
Somchem S265 100.0 35.8 2.32 2231 82.4 28402 2587 1.095
Accurate 1680 100.0 41.9 2.72 2228 67.6 29638 2600 1.064
IMR 4227 100.0 35.7 2.31 2160 73.8 25715 2482 1.113
Lovex-S0531 100.0 35.0 2.27 2134 78.2 22396 2556 1.160
Hodgdon H4227 100.0 35.7 2.31 2133 73.3 24203 2490 1.135
ADI AR 2207 100.0 36.5 2.36 1950 65.5 18128 2330 1.270
Alliant Reloder- 7 100.0 37.7 2.44 1947 63.1 18524 2261 1.266
Hodgdon H4198 100.0 36.6 2.37 1942 59.0 21290 2029 1.226
IMR 4198 100.0 35.0 2.27 1913 60.9 18745 2015 1.271
Nor
coyote wacker
 
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 6:45 am

Re: cutting edge bullets?

Postby pitted bore » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:12 pm

[
coyote wacker wrote: . . . Right now I'am working on loads with the CEB 160 gr. in a Bushmaster 20" upper...

Choice of powder is Lil'Gun ... I'am getting a small spot size of a BB on rim of carbon was 1/4 of rim at starting loads 38 gr....right now I'am at MAX recommended by CEB 40.5gr....still some room for more powder....if I had a bolt gun I would be a little braver....

coyote wacker-
I worked with 160 grain bullets with 450B bolt guns - perhaps I was brave to the point of foolishness. You can be the judge. Here are the posts from four years ago.


A couple of notes: WARNING --- The loads above and in the linked threads are almost certainly above industry pressure specifications for the cartridge. If these loads were tried with a semi-auto or other rifle, the result may be rifle parts and body pieces flying through the air.

Some of the above loads may not be safe even in other bolt guns. When I started to make reloads for the M1903 for hunting, I had to reduce the loads from the maximums used in the M70.

Enforcer seems to be a good powder for the lighter bullets. I simply followed forum member rohk in trying it out. I recall that he had very fine results using it with his AR.

I've used Cutting Edge 130-grain rifle bullets in loading for a 30/30 Marlin lever rifle. I may have to obtain some of their 160-grain .4515 bullets to try in my 450B bolt rifles. At $2.34 per bullet plus shipping, it's probable that the testing will be neither extensive nor very intensive.

Good luck.
--Bob
edited to repair spelling and link function
Last edited by pitted bore on Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
pitted bore
 
Posts: 700
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:05 pm
Location: The U.P.'s U.P.

Re: cutting edge bullets?

Postby pitted bore » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:30 pm

coyote wacker-
A further note:
I couldn't readily decipher the quickload report because of the non-proportional font spacing, so I tried to clean it up a bit (below).

Curiously, the software limits set by the CE quickload user eliminated the faster powders that might produce some interesting results. I'm curious what it might have shown for 2400 and Enforcer, among other powders.
--Bob

Code: Select all
                    Filling                     
                   /Loading                    Prop.  P      P
                     Ratio  Charge Charge Vel  Burnt  max    muzz  B_Time
Powder type           %     Grains  Gram  fps   %     psi     psi   ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Hodgdon Lil'Gun      100.0  40.5   2.63  2617  95.4  34324  3503  0.945 !Near Max!
Winchester 296        98.4  41.2   2.67  2575  85.3  35000  3490  0.959 !Near Max!
Hodgdon H110          98.4  41.2   2.67  2530  88.7  35000  3299  0.970 !Near Max!
Rottweil R910        100.0  36.0   2.33  2526  95.8  33387  3194  0.962
PB Clermont PCL 512   95.0  35.5   2.30  2504  94.9  35000  3036  0.970 !Near Max!
Nitrochemie A/S 0200 100.0  39.0   2.53  2372  81.7  30522  2950  1.031
Accurate 5744        100.0  36.5   2.36  2362  76.8  33161  2874  1.008
ADI AR 2205          100.0  37.1   2.40  2330  86.1  33229  2692  1.015
Vihtavuori N110      100.0  33.1   2.14  2301  90.2  25666  2831  1.082
Somchem S265         100.0  35.8   2.32  2231  82.4  28402  2587  1.095
Accurate 1680        100.0  41.9   2.72  2228  67.6  29638  2600  1.064
IMR 4227             100.0  35.7   2.31  2160  73.8  25715  2482  1.113
Lovex-S0531          100.0  35.0   2.27  2134  78.2  22396  2556  1.160
Hodgdon H4227        100.0  35.7   2.31  2133  73.3  24203  2490  1.135
ADI AR 2207          100.0  36.5   2.36  1950  65.5  18128  2330  1.270
Alliant Reloder 7    100.0  37.7   2.44  1947  63.1  18524  2261  1.266
Hodgdon H4198        100.0  36.6   2.37  1942  59.0  21290  2029  1.226
IMR 4198             100.0  35.0   2.27  1913  60.9  18745  2015  1.271
User avatar
pitted bore
 
Posts: 700
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:05 pm
Location: The U.P.'s U.P.

Re: cutting edge bullets?

Postby Hoot » Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:47 am

If you go with the manufacturer's recommended seating depth of .289 inches, a 37gr charge of Alliant 2400 would in theory (see signature), yield an OAL of around 2.08 (about like 230 FMJ) and a velocity of 2650 fps if you taper crimp down into the driving band groove. If I had some, I'd give them a shot and see how they calibrate to QL. The driving band grooves are a definite plus to provide for some additional case retention, not that 2400 needs much, but more to prevent the bullet and un-ignited powder from jumping out of the case and "squibbing". I've seen that happen with straight-sided COP 160's.

Image

Hoot
In Theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In Practice, there is.
User avatar
Hoot
 
Posts: 5083
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:34 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: cutting edge bullets?

Postby Hoot » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:19 am

Coyote whacker, have you had a chance to give these a trip across the traps yet? They have captured my imagination, but for the moment, my wallet remains at large. ;)

Hoot
In Theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In Practice, there is.
User avatar
Hoot
 
Posts: 5083
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:34 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: cutting edge bullets?

Postby LIL GUN LOVER » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:16 pm

Been wanting to try these. Just ordered and found $10 discount, $90 no shipping.
LIL GUN LOVER
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:37 am
Location: Pinson, Al.

Next

Return to Reloading for the 450b

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests