Hornady taper crimp die

[pnw]

Is the crimp die in this set a "taper crimp" or is the tc another component?

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/146834 ... uctFinding

[Al in Mi]

taper crimp

[pitted bore]

The linked page on the midwayusa site reflects the continuing mess that Hornady created when they released the die set with inadequate attention to the instruction sheet.

Midway Page: Hornady Dies at Midwayusa.

Notes:

• Seating die features seater adjustment screw, built-in crimper, and locking retainer spring
• The crimp die and is intended for a deep crimp which may be required with heavy cast bullet loads.
• Features Hornady's No-Risk Lifetime Warranty
• Hornady Suggests Spraying all metal parts with Hornady One Shot Gun Cleaner-Degreaser and Dry Lubricant before using the dies (Sold Separately Item# 270-323)

Not only does the statement I've highlighted in red have grammatical problems, it probably should not be taken seriously. With cast bullets, a too-heavy crimp may deform the bullets causing accuracy problems, and if the taper crimp is applied really heavily, it can create ammo that does not headspace properly in the chamber, perhaps dropping too far into the chamber, which can result in overpressure firing.

On the Midway page Immediately below the notes is a section headed "Additional Information". One of the two links there is to "Instructions". The faulty instruction sheet for loading with this die set has generated discussion on this forum for several years.
,
If I read the last page of the instructions correctly, the date is 5/05, which is also the date of the sheet Hornady furnished with their first batch of dies from years ago. Hornady has had many moons to get it right, and still has not done so.

The instruction sheet completely ignores the Taper Crimp Die, which can easily bewilder a novice reloader, and even some fairly experienced reloaders who have come to this site in the past.

Even more diabolical, the instruction sheet includes detailed instructions for applying a roll crimp, which is a no-no with the 450B. One wishes Hornady would sell the die set with a seater sleeve made specifically for the 450B cartridge, rather than using the sleeve made for the 460 S&W pistol cartridge. At the least they should put in a supplemental sheet specifically describing procedures for the 450B.

--Bob

[Jim in Houston]

Set up the seating die WITHOUT CRIMPING. This means that when you set it up to just contact an empty shell with the press ram at full stroke, you then back it off about one turn. The instructions are pretty clear on this. Then use the separate crimping die to put in the taper crimp (to .474 or .475). You will not need the expander die.

If you use the seating die to crimp, you end up with a roll crimp, which is not good for the 450 BM. The reason for this escapes me, but it is on the forum somewhere.

When I reload, before I do the taper crimp, I make a side crimp using the FCD die. Then I taper crimp to take out the slight flare that the side crimp can add.

[pitted bore]

Set up the seating die WITHOUT CRIMPING. This means that when you set it up to just contact an empty shell with the press ram at full stroke, you then back it off about one turn. The instructions are pretty clear on this. Then use the separate crimping die to put in the taper crimp (to .474 or .475). You will not need the expander die.

Jim-
You're certainly correct in your statement that the instructions are clear about how to seat without a crimp. However, Hornady does NOT make it clear in their instructions that the seater die crimp should not be applied when reloading the 450B cartridge. (If I overlooked this somehow, please correct me.)

If you use the seating die to crimp, you end up with a roll crimp, which is not good for the 450 BM. The reason for this escapes me, but it is on the forum somewhere.

The reason that the roll crimp can create problems in the 450B is that the cartridge headspaces on the case mouth. The roll crimp has the capability to mash the case mouth into the bullet. This could allow the case mouth to slip past the case mouth ridge of the chamber. When the cartridge is fired, the roll-crimped mouth cannot expand to full case diameter. So, the case mouth may wedge the bullet in the case, resulting in a possible Ka-Boom with "interesting" side-effects.

I hope I've written this clearly.
--Bob

[Bushmaster1921]

Hello pitted bore when loading with bullet seating die how do you adjust not to get roll crimp,wasn't quite sure on how to not get rollcrimp,

[Jim in Houston]

Hello pitted bore when loading with bullet seating die how do you adjust not to get roll crimp,wasn't quite sure on how to not get rollcrimp,

I'll jump in here, since I have just done this on my die set after doing some component replacement. I have copied this from the Hornady Die Instructions - http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/manuals-current/metalic-reloading/Hornady-Custom-Grade-Dies-instructions.pdf. Steps 1 - 3 are relevant.

SEATING WITHOUT A CRIMP
1. Insert a sized case into the shell holder and raise the press ram. Back out the seater adjustment screw. If you have the seater adjustment screw too low to start, you may run out of adjustment.
2. Thread the seating die into the press until you feel resistance. At that point, the crimp ring has come in contact with the mouth of the case.
3. Back the die out of the press one turn to prevent the case from being crimped — tighten the die body lock ring. Raise the handle and return the ram to its starting position.
4. Insert a bullet in the case mouth - raise the ram so the cartridge and bullet enter the alignment sleeve. Thread the seater adjustment screw until resistance is felt. Upon completion of the stroke, the bullet should be barely seated in the case.
5. Adjust the seater adjustment screw down in small increments, each time operating the handle until the bullet is seated to the desired length. At the completion of each stroke, inspect the cartridge for the correct overall length.

[Hoot]

Not sure if this happens to everyone or just me. If I slowly walk a bullet in by repeated adjustment of he seating stem and reapplication of the ram until I reach the desired COL. Having reached that point, if I lock it down and then seat the next bullet with a mostly continous stroke of the ram, the resultant cartridge and subsequent ones usually wind a up a little too short. I suspect that seating in fits and starts results in more resistance and springback as opposed to a continuous slide. There is also a correlation to caliber as this is much less pronounced in smaller calibers.

To combat this phenomenon I set my initial seating to come up a little long, say +.03 producing a cartridge that measures 2.29 COL when my end goal is 2.26 .
As my barber is fond of saying I can always take a little more off but putting more on is a going to take a while.
Anyway, after locking the stem down with it seating a little long, I seat the next round with the more continous stroke like I'll be doing the rest of them using and remeasure the COL. Some times it's spot on then, but that's mostly a matter of luck. It will provide you with a coefficient that you use to judge preliminary seating setups going forward. It sure beats having to tap the bullet out to the correct COL with an inertial puller.

Then again, it could just be a phenomenon that happens to me.

Regardless, there is always room in any process for a little improvement.

Hoot

[Al in Mi]

Not sure if this happens to everyone or just me. If I slowly walk a bullet in by repeated adjustment of he seating stem and reapplication of the ram until I reach the desired COL. Having reached that point, if I lock it down and then seat the next bullet with a mostly continous stroke of the ram, the resultant cartridge and subsequent ones usually wind a up a little too short. I suspect that seating in fits and starts results in more resistance and springback as opposed to a continuous slide. There is also a correlation to caliber as this is much less pronounced in smaller calibers.

To combat this phenomenon I set my initial seating to come up a little long, say +.03 producing a cartridge that measures 2.29 COL when my end goal is 2.26 .
As my barber is fond of saying I can always take a little more off but putting more on is a going to take a while.
Anyway, after locking the stem down with it seating a little long, I seat the next round with the more continous stroke like I'll be doing the rest of them using and remeasure the COL. Some times it's spot on then, but that's mostly a matter of luck. It will provide you with a coefficient that you use to judge preliminary seating setups going forward. It sure beats having to tap the bullet out to the correct COL with an inertial puller.

Then again, it could just be a phenomenon that happens to me.

Regardless, there is always room in any process for a little improvement.

Hoot

No Hoot it happens to me the same way and on 2 different presses.................... so we can eliminate weather and time zones!!!

[Jim in Houston]

Same thing happens to me. I usually seat the first bullet after setting up the die, measure the COL, and if it is a little short, adjust the die. I invested (about $25) in the Hornady microjust seating stem http://www.midwayusa.com/product/394708/hornady-microjust-seating-stem, so it is pretty easy to dial in a little more for the next cartridge. If the first bullet comes up a little short, I just go ahead and use it on my next range session, if I am not evaluating loads for accuracy. Sometimes I'll mark it with a sharpie so I know it is a little OOSpec on COL.

But, I think I will try Hoot's method on my next set up, which will be in a few minutes, if I can evade my wife and her list of errands that must be run right now!