New die question

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New die question

Postby Al in Mi » Mon May 02, 2016 4:49 am

could any of you who have just gotten a set of new 450B dies measure the body length of the seater die?

Buddy Ryan just got a set from Midway last week, and is about a 1/2" shorter than mine ( 2 3/4" vs 3 1/4"). He can get about 2-3 turns in his press before the seater plug bottoms out bad things happen to the brass.

Calls going into Hornady today, just wanted to check and see if anybody else's new set was the same.
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Re: New die question

Postby pitted bore » Mon May 02, 2016 9:34 am

Al-
I cannot answer directly your question about body length of the seater die in new sets. I've purchased four Hornady die sets over the last decade, and all seater dies have the same body length.

Is the sliding sleeve in the new die set the same length as the sleeve in older set, or has it been shortened also?

The photo shows the case mouth turned in slightly. This suggests a couple of possible manipulations that might cause the case to telescope as shown. If the case mouth contacts the crimping ring in the sliding sleeve before the bullet seating stem begins to shove the bullet into the case, it might cause the lengthwise crumpling shown. As the case is pressed into the die, the sleeve ring will start to fold the case mouth inward. Then as the case enters the die further, the base of the bullet will press against the in-folded case mouth and cause the lengthwise bucklng. If this is what is occurring, then adjusting the die so that the case mouth cannot touch the crimp ring should solve the problem. The instructions that came with the die set describe how this is done, in the section titled "seating without a crimp". Perhaps the short die body may make this adjustment impossible.

If the case is new, it's also possible that the case mouth may need some slight flaring to allow the bullet to seat. I experienced about the same result shown in your photo with my very first attempt to seat a bullet in a 450B case. The bullet did not slide into the case mouth, and as I shoved the case further into the die, the case crumpled. Usually case mouth expansion of 450B brass is not needed, particularly with a case resized after firing. As I found out, some new cases can be a little too snug, and cause problems.

The reply from Hornady should be interesting; please post it.

Could you also post if either of my guesses are correct? Some of the true gurus will likely have better explanations about what's going on, unless Hornady says the die is of improper length.

Thanks.
--Bob
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Re: New die question

Postby Al in Mi » Mon May 02, 2016 10:41 am

Bob, the slide and seating stem were the same length as mine, just the die body length is different. I could only get it about halfway thru the turret head (3-4 turns) on my Redding press before the slide bottomed out with the seating stem about 3 turns in.

Personally I think the wrong die body was in the ole bucket at assembly, but will keep you posted on what Hornady says and does.
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Re: New die question

Postby plant_one » Mon May 02, 2016 11:43 am

mine with just the body and lock ring is about 3"

i'm only a few threads into the LNL bushing. i followed the hornady setup directions of putting a case into the shell holder, raising the ram to the top of the stroke, threading the die down until i felt resistance and backing up 1 turn to not use the crimp built into the die and locked it down.
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Re: New die question

Postby Rwood » Mon May 02, 2016 8:24 pm

Well thanks for tossing that out there al. I did get a response from hornady in less than 24 hours aftered i emailed them with my issue. I offered to return the seater die when i received a new one and was told that a new die would be sent out to replace this one and that i would jusg need to swap all my dies internals into it as they are sending just the die. I was told i could toss the old one they arent even looking to take it back so good news there and score one for hornady customer service.
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Re: New die question

Postby Hoot » Mon May 02, 2016 8:49 pm

Sometimes they ship a full length .284 Win die and some times the shorter version. I have one of each now. I had a similar problem with my first die and like you, they sent me a replacement that worked just fine. Later I experienced the same problem with the replacement and it wound up being an internal component alignment issue. The seater plug can get aligned wrong with the sliding guide and cause that. While you're waiting for your replacement, unscrew the seater stem and tip the die upside down to let the rest fall out. Reassemble it while holding it upside down. It's tricky but turned out to be what I have to do from time to time, when it gets in a bad mood. When it's not aligned, you do not get much rotation of the stem, like you're experiencing. Trust me on this. 2k+ 450b loads and I've seen this before. Once its reassembled, resist the temptation to shake it up and down. that can cause a misalignment to reoccur. By the same token, you can feel when the plug doesn't all back into alignment with the sliding guide, once you've shook it up and down a few times. Instead of tick, tick, tick as you shake it up and down, you'll feel a tick, tick, tick-tuck when it falls into alignment. Hard to put into words.

Hoot
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Re: New die question

Postby Al in Mi » Tue May 03, 2016 5:23 am

Glad they were prompt Ryan, you'll see that wire clip at the bottom of the die, it's easy to swap the guts out.

You know Hoot I have had that happen on my 460 S&W seater die, didn't happen often and yeah I was a shaker of it :o !! I took it apart and spun some emery cloth in the die body and polished the edges of the slider and the seater plug, so far so good.

I might just do that to the 450 and 357 dies I have too, just for good measure :)
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Re: New die question

Postby Rwood » Fri May 06, 2016 4:38 pm

Emailed hornady late sunday night, monday had a response from them that they would handle it. Tuesday received a shipping email with tracking number and here friday and lunch i received my new seater die which is 3 1/4" instead of that 2 3/4" that i had before. Very impressed with hornadys fast customer service on this one guys. Thanks hoot im gonna follow your advise on that and check that out as well as polish the inside of this new seater die as al suggested. Thanks for the help guys and score one for hornady on this encounter.
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Re: New die question

Postby Jim in Houston » Fri May 13, 2016 5:41 pm

Be sure and clean the dies after disassembling them, before you reassemble them and use them for reloading. As I recall, this warning is written in red type at the very beginning of the die instructions. If you don't do this, bad things can happen during the reloading process. Ask me how I know.
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