Barnes 300gr TSX

Talk about your 450b reloading experience, ask questions, etc...

Moderator: MudBug

Forum rules
Please try and keep it safe!

This information is the responsibility of the community, not the forum. 450bushmaster.net is not responsible if you blow yourselves up.

Barnes 300gr TSX

Postby mndpk » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:05 pm

Hello all.

Am new to this forum and have started loading for my 450B recently. Have been reloading for 30+ yrs but only recently began working with wildcat rounds.

After hunting with the 450B for a few years have decided to reload the spent brass. Up to this point have only used the Hornady 250gr factory ammo. Today reloaded 5 rounds using the 250gr Hornady flex tip bullet over Lil Gun powder per Hornady Reloading manual. Using this combo was able to achieve a 1" three shot group at 100 yds. Will chrono it later but point of impact was nearly the same as the factory ammo.

I also loaded several rounds with the Barnes TSX 300gr bullet. This is a .458 caliber bullet and after reading the bullet resizing methods on this forum was able to successfully resize this bullet to .451. To resize I used the Lee .454 sizing die followed by the .451 sizing die. Although the Lee lube worked ok for the 454 die it did not lube the bullet well for the pass through the 451 die. I used RCBS case lube liberally to resize in the 451 die. Although still very difficult the case lube did help significantly. The bullets did not spring back to 452 but stayed at 451. These were loaded over 31gr of Lil Gun. The group opened up to 3.5" at 100 yds.

Would like to work on the 300gr load a bit further to get down to 2" groups (if possible) at 100yds. After searching numerous forums have been unable to find any info on others trying to use this bullet in a 450B.

Has anyone else attempted to work up loads using the 300gr TSX for the 450B?

Thanks in advance
mndpk
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:31 pm

Re: Barnes 300gr TSX

Postby Hoot » Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:45 am

Welcome Aboard!

Lil Gun, especially recent production lots, burns a little fast for 300gr bullets. Given the slightly higher pressures that accompany all-copper bullets, running the pressure up even a little higher moves you in the wrong direction away from the "sweet zone". Not saying it wont work, just not optimally. W296, H110 or 300MP would be a better choice of powder. That having been said, I'm not sure if your group size is that impacted by the difference in burn rate, but I can say that my experience with the 300 grainers has been that the faster you can kick them out the end, the more stable they fly. Of course that means safely kick them out. Consider a slower powder and give it another go.

I'm at work right now, so I can't look up starting charge weights but I'm sure other members can. If I remember, I'll check when I get home. Are you running a stock Bushmaster upper with it's 1:24 twist in either 16 or 20" barrel, or something else?

Hoot
In Theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In Practice, there is.
User avatar
Hoot
 
Posts: 3585
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:34 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: Barnes 300gr TSX

Postby mndpk » Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:33 pm

Thanks Hoot!

I do have some W296 and can give that a try. My upper is a stock 16" Bushmaster.

Also insight on a .451 vs .452 diameter bullet would be appreciated. The TSX doesn't change diameter after the bullet sizing operation. Not sure if the 0.001" would make difference.

Paul
mndpk
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:31 pm

Re: Barnes 300gr TSX

Postby Al in Mi » Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:49 pm

I've used STP for sizing lube, worked great, use paint thinner or gas to clean them up.

1680 is a good powder for the heavier bullets also.
Al in Mi
 
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:24 am

Re: Barnes 300gr TSX

Postby Siringo » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:54 am

I had squeezed some down years ago, but my experience with them was poor, at least as compared to factory ammo. I assume your talking about the flat based TSX, not the Tipped Boatail (that bullet is to long to be adequately stabilized in a 1/24 inch twist barrel -- really shows up at 300 yards).

As far as the dies are concerned -- I honed the .451 out to .452. I always felt .451 bullets created another variable, requiring a heavy side crimp ---- which I wanted to avoid. If I used .451 bullets, I did not expand the case mouth. Thereby getting a little more tension on the bullet. Also I implemented a sonic case cleaner to get rid of all the carbon on the case mouth.

I also used some Hornady 300gr. SST's for muzzleloaders. These are .452. But oddly enough, at 300 yards, their point of impact was several inches lower that the resized hornady 300 gr. 45-70 flat point. Go figure. The groups were not good and why they printed lower was odd (same powder charge). I marked it up to the bullet being unstable due to its length and that played havoc with the B.C.
Siringo
 
Posts: 661
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:15 pm

Re: Barnes 300gr TSX

Postby Siringo » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:01 pm

I did this way back in 2009. Wow --- I've been gone awhile. Try this link. I was a little fuzzy on the last post.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=77&sid=d13d0613509128aeda2db2bf1ea3bd37#p498
Siringo
 
Posts: 661
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:15 pm

Re: Barnes 300gr TSX

Postby mndpk » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:24 pm

Thanks for the help!

Did a bit more checking tonight. Using a spilt case checked the max OAL with the bullet against the lands. After a couple of checks got a consistent measurement of 2.260". The bullet is a Barnes TSX 300 gr .458 that's been resized to 451. The bullet is flat base and has the same length as the 250gr Hornady flex tip.

So appears the bullet seating die needs to be setup so the COL is 2.210". That would seat the bullet 0.050" off the lands. Since this is an all copper Barnes need to validate on their web site.

My first loads had the bullet seated so the COL was 2.095" which would be 0.265" off the lands.

What's the experience on bullet seating depth off the lands for the 450B?
mndpk
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:31 pm

Re: Barnes 300gr TSX

Postby Hoot » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:52 am

mndpk wrote:Thanks Hoot!

I do have some W296 and can give that a try. My upper is a stock 16" Bushmaster.

Also insight on a .451 vs .452 diameter bullet would be appreciated. The TSX doesn't change diameter after the bullet sizing operation. Not sure if the 0.001" would make difference.

Paul


Paul, I've never seen any substantiating evidence that the difference between .451 and .452 bullets made much difference in the 450b. Now most of that work was with cup and core bullets. Given the harder nature of all copper ones, the .451 may play to your advantage as the resultant pressure may be more favorable. Sorry I forgot about checking for you, but my entire afternoon and evening were spoken for. by the time I dragged home at 8:15 PM, I was happy to collapse into my lazyboy and watch an episode of X-files on Netflix with the better half before hitting the sack. Figure on starting with 36gr of W296 and work up from there in half grain steps. Your brass will tell you when to stop and fine tune in smaller steps. Use a quality primer like my favorite, Remington 7 1/2 to get that 296 cooking. Winchester WSR primers are a good choice as well. A chronometer is an essential tool when reloading. That and a good, repeatable rest setup for the shooting bench.

Taper crimping, down into a driving band groove has always served me well with Barnes. Hangs on real good. I love the 200 and 275 XPB bullets in this caliber. Looking at the TSX, they almost look identical.

Hoot
In Theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In Practice, there is.
User avatar
Hoot
 
Posts: 3585
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:34 am
Location: Minnesota


Return to Reloading for the 450b

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests