New Lehigh bullets

Talk about your 450b reloading experience, ask questions, etc...

Moderator: MudBug

Forum rules
Please try and keep it safe!

This information is the responsibility of the community, not the forum. 450bushmaster.net is not responsible if you blow yourselves up.

New Lehigh bullets

Postby Bmt85 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:09 pm

http://www.lehighdefense.com/collections/bullets/452

I guess they now make a 300 flat nose and a 135 xtreme defense. I'm really interested in the 135 for deer hunting inside 50yds, but what powder would you use? I would think enforcer as the slowest, rl9 should do better, what do you think?
Bmt85
 
Posts: 701
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 11:13 am
Location: S.E. Michigan

Re: New Lehigh bullets

Postby Hoot » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:11 pm

Commander Faschisto actually started a thread on these bullets in the Reloading section under the General Discussion section. Crazy penetration videos on YouTube about these bullets! They are designed to come out looking like they went in, IE no deformation, so you're relying upon hydraulic shock from the wound channel. Lighter bullets will slow down faster, but based on those videos, I'm betting that at the higher velocity afforded by the light weight, they will still keep moving for a while. Of course, if you hit bone you produce plenty of organic shrapnel to do damage to the surrounding tissue. I would not be surprised to see those 135's easily make 3k+ fps with safe pressure levels. That plays well to flatter trajectories, but since they don't make any BC claims for these, that is strictly speculation. In my mind's eye, I worry that if you seat them to crimp into the groove, the OAL will be so short that they may have trouble veering up the feed ramp without hanging up. That needs to be determined as I'm again speculating. They're also going to have one heck of a jump to the leade. Given their short length, barely .15 longer than wide, they could wind up turning and heading off in a different direction than that which they entered and or tumbling, increasing the damage.

If you're getting these for close range head shots, there's no benefit from the Extreme Penetration factor, nor high velocity. Actually, you could load them with just enough uumph to cycle the action and have a real pussy cat of a shooter, while still being plenty lethal on head shots, but then so would a 223 fmj.

All the weights available for these in .452 leave me with a keen interest to see someone load some up and write them up, come spring. Despite having a bad backlog of pending work on my plate, I may have to give them a go myself once it warms up, assuming someone else doesn't do so beforehand. Just the pure curiosity of how fast they can be kicked is tantalizing.

Hoot
In Theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In Practice, there is.
User avatar
Hoot
 
Posts: 5083
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:34 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: New Lehigh bullets

Postby Silverrun5 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:56 pm

I sent Lehigh an email yesterday asking for load data for the .450 Bushmater. Reply today was they don't have any load data for the .450 Bushmater. I was more interested in the heavier penetrator. I think it's 245 gr or so.
Silverrun5
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:07 pm

Re: New Lehigh bullets

Postby Bmt85 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:32 pm

Hoot, I didn't even see the bullet length on the 135's, thought they would've been longer. It says they are shorter then the 120 extreme defense for .45 acp. I wish the 135's had a second crimp groove, though. I would really like to see what kind of velocity can be achieved with the 135's. I could definitely see 3k being achieved, a lot more if the right powder is used.

For penetration, I have a feeling it will pass what the pistols do with the xtreme defense bullets, but not by much. For close range deer, I don't think that would be a problem as long as it's a good shot through the boiler maker (I don't do head head shots on deer). Assuming the bullet works as advertised, of course.

Silverrun5, it kind of surprises me they don't have any load data for the 450bm. They have made the 245gr penetrator specifically for the 450bm for quite a while now. If I were going to try them I would load as long as possible that still functions, using win296/h110 at 85% max case fill, to start. That's me, maybe someone here as given them a try and could give you a starting point.
Bmt85
 
Posts: 701
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 11:13 am
Location: S.E. Michigan

Re: New Lehigh bullets

Postby Hoot » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:16 pm

I modeled the Xtreme Defense 135gr in QuickLoad using the 140gr Sinterfire bullet since the XD 135gr is not in the database and the Sinterfire is. I adjusted the weight of the Sinterfire down to 135gr, its length from .577 to .600 and its diameter from .451 to .452. Most importantly, I plugged in the higher start pressure due to the XD135 being solid copper. Turns out that given the solid copper has a higher start pressure, Alliant 2400 is a little fast for optimum performance. (Usable but not predicted optimal). Guess what appears to be the sweet spot powder? Our good old friend Lil Gun. Seating the XD135 to yield a COL of 2.10 hopefully catches some of the groove with the taper crimp. Not having one on hand, I can only make an educated guess based upon its looks. Anyway, it models like 45gr of LilGun would start you in the middle of the performance sweet spot. If they weren't so expensive, I'd say start a few grains lower in keeping with the reloader's creed. QuickLoad has a tendency toward conservative. I always assumed that was to minimize risk of some bonehead starting right off the bat with the max load with possibly dire consequences. Ball powers can be fussy about temperature. A load of Lil Gun that is just beginning to show pressure signs at 40F will need to be backed off at 90F. Extruded powders, with temerature compensating additives, tend to be much more temperature stable, but I haven't found one yet that ran a 450b worth a darn, other than for low pressure plinkers that may not cycle the action.

Darn! All this talking about it makes me itch to jump in, but today's high was -2F with a wind chill of -20. It is after all, January in Minnesota. Comes with the territory. Spring will eventually arrive however...

I'll go out on a limb and speculate that since other all copper bullets like the Barnes XPB do just fine with LiL Gun up through 275gr, no reason why it wouldn't also work with the 250gr Xtreme Penetrator. I would not go as far as the 300gr Flat Noses though. Better to slow it down a little with H110/W296/MP300.

As always in cases of reloading, YMMV. Especially in a faster twist rate barrel. Back the starting load down more for a 1:16 which is not a good choice for those 135s.

Hoot

EDIT: I forgot to mention that the XD135 models well with Vihtavuori N110, which I happen to have a partial bottle of, also.
In Theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In Practice, there is.
User avatar
Hoot
 
Posts: 5083
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:34 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: New Lehigh bullets

Postby Bmt85 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:44 pm

Wow, lilgun is in the sweet spot?! Didn't think that would happen. Well I have a bunch of enforcer and lilgun to play with, so I'm really thinking about ordering a box or two of the 135's. Maybe even the 300's for that matter.
Bmt85
 
Posts: 701
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 11:13 am
Location: S.E. Michigan

Re: New Lehigh bullets

Postby Bmt85 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:42 pm

Well I needed to place an order for a few things through Midway and decided to pick up 100 of the 135gr xd. Received them a couple days ago, and first thing I noticed was it has a hollow cavity in the rear of the bullet. Unfortunately, I won't be loading these for a while because I will be building another 450 rifle and selling the current one off. So why waste them.

200gr Sierra fpj, 135gr XD, and the 200 xpb
Image

Image

.
Last edited by Bmt85 on Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Bmt85
 
Posts: 701
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 11:13 am
Location: S.E. Michigan

Re: New Lehigh bullets

Postby Hoot » Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:18 pm

Interesting that they removed copper from the base in order to make weight. I guess it had to come from somewhere since there's no hollow point. Could you send me a few of them to experiment with? I'd be happy to Paypal you for your cost. If so, PM me.

Hoot
In Theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In Practice, there is.
User avatar
Hoot
 
Posts: 5083
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:34 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: New Lehigh bullets

Postby Bmt85 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:42 pm

Sure, how many you want exactly? Pm me your address, don't worry about the shipping.

You play with Quickload, could you see what this bullet will do with Enforcer, I have a bunch of it and would like to try it. Would you need dimensions from the bullet?
Bmt85
 
Posts: 701
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 11:13 am
Location: S.E. Michigan

Re: New Lehigh bullets

Postby Hoot » Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:59 pm

Bmt85 wrote:Sure, how many you want exactly? Pm me your address, don't worry about the shipping.

You play with Quickload, could you see what this bullet will do with Enforcer, I have a bunch of it and would like to try it. Would you need dimensions from the bullet?


Got it up on the computer right now. Need the distance from the tip to the groove and the heel to the groove. Doesn't have to be .001 accurate, but the better the reading the more likely the model.

Hoot

EDIT: Enforcer looks like a good match, but for the same pressure, Lil Gun is predicted to give an additional 100 fps. = better match
In Theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In Practice, there is.
User avatar
Hoot
 
Posts: 5083
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:34 am
Location: Minnesota

Next

Return to Reloading for the 450b

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 33 guests