Powder Coated Cast Bullet?

Talk about your 450b reloading experience, ask questions, etc...

Moderator: MudBug

Forum rules
Please try and keep it safe!

This information is the responsibility of the community, not the forum. 450bushmaster.net is not responsible if you blow yourselves up.

Powder Coated Cast Bullet?

Postby engineer40 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:29 pm

So I have a few hundred 340gr hard cast (21 Bhn) measuring .452 with no gas check. Penn bullets rates them for 454 Casull's and speeds up to 2100fps.

Image

I've read about the issues many have with cast bullets from a semi auto 450 BM.

I went and got the equipment and components for powder coating tonight after work. Just ran my first batch. Not too bad for the super cheap Harbor Freight powder coating! I'm looking forward to trying them in my 450 BM.

Even if they fly straight, I'm a little worried that the large meplat won't let them feed consistently.

If anyone has any load suggestions, I'm open to listening! Thanks!

Image


Update: I should add that I have Lil Gun, H110, and IMR4227 available to use at this time. Thanks!
engineer40
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:29 am

Re: Powder Coated Cast Bullet?

Postby Dino2575 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:01 pm

Nice job on the coating..looks nice and even..I would still recommend a gas check..quite a lot of pressure on that base in the 450, gas cutting would still be a concern. D
Dino2575
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:04 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Powder Coated Cast Bullet?

Postby engineer40 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:20 pm

Thanks!

I don't cast myself. My dad does, but he's stingy with his tools. So I can only use cast bullets that other people sell. This particular bullet doesn't have a base that can accept a gas check.

I thought gas checks where a No-No with AR rifles?


And just as a side note; it's weird to me that one of the big manufacturers doesn't produce a flat point, large meplat, jacketed bullet with a hard lead core. Unless I missed it?
engineer40
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:29 am

Re: Powder Coated Cast Bullet?

Postby Dino2575 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:30 pm

Only one way to find out...shoot em....I don't think a gas chech is a no no.. From what I've read, needs to be long enough to span gas port. So base doesn't get a bite taken out of it.. D
Dino2575
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:04 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Powder Coated Cast Bullet?

Postby plant_one » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:07 pm

avoid the lil gun for your cast stuff, especially if non gas checked.

its a known "hot" burning powder. as such i can verify that it will burn right through powder coating on the base at supersonic levels and you'll be spraying lead out of the end of your barrel. I had it happening even with some mild loads i was testing in my 300 blk a while back - i had to scrape lead off my magnetospeed blast sheild with a knife after only like 15 or 20 rounds. No more lil-gun and cast for me.


did you take the extra step and de-lube those bullets before you PC them?



one other thing to note - some of the HF powder coat paints have a lot of silica in them. the wrong powder with too much silica can be like runing sandpaper down your bore.

Most folks i know who are powder coating are using polyester 400* TGIC from powder by the pound like this

https://www.powderbuythepound.com/cherry-starburst.html

some of their per pound pricing seems a bit steep, but many of their powder coat powders you can get in 2oz packs for $5-$10.

you can pc HUNDREDS Of bullets with 2oz of this stuff, and dont even need to use a gun to coat with it - it can be applied simply by putting some bullets in a sealed tub (think tupperware or butter tub), scoop some powder in, and shake for a few mins. sift through some 1/4" wire screen, and bake.

feel free to take a look at this thread. there's some great discussion about PC and how to go about it really easily. probably more than you ever wanted to know about powder coating bullets.

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtop ... 85&t=86939


i bake mine in an old toaster oven i picked up yard sale'ing for $5.
User avatar
plant_one
 
Posts: 322
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:58 pm
Location: Oakland County, MI

Re: Powder Coated Cast Bullet?

Postby Hoot » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:11 am

Forget Lil Gun and H110. Quickload doesn't have that bullet in its database but they do have a flat point, flat base, cast lead 325gr. Changing the weight to 340gr and guessing the length at 1.1 inches; Per QuickLoad, start with 30gr IMR4227, bullet seated to produce 2.26 COL and work up from there. If the bullet is shorter than 1.1, no big deal. If it is longer, reduce charge a grain per .05 additional length. IMR4227 should be a good match up in terms of case fill and propellant burned. H110 almost makes the grade but doesn't fill the case adequately. If you still want to try it, start with 31gr. You don't have much of a comfort window before the pressure shoots up. Maybe 2-3gr. IMHO, 4227 is a better match. Some other powder in between the two would make an even better match but 4227 works. Keep in mind that QuickLoad is a synthetic model. Never seen it underestimate pressure and velocity. It has always erred on the side of caution. As you said, my biggest concern would also be feeding.

Hoot
In Theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In Practice, there is.
User avatar
Hoot
 
Posts: 3496
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:34 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: Powder Coated Cast Bullet?

Postby Colohunter » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:23 am

I tried shooting some powder coated lead 230gr round nose bullets and could never get anything close to a group out them. Even at 50 yards I couldn't consistently get on paper. With a heavier bullet and a little lower velocity you might have better luck. I look forward to your testing.
User avatar
Colohunter
 
Posts: 395
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:58 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Powder Coated Cast Bullet?

Postby engineer40 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:12 am

Hey good morning plant_one.

Thanks for the suggestions! The first time I tried to PC without removing the existing lube and that made a mess of everything. So technically the picture I showed was my second batch that I did immediately after that first batch. The bullets in the picture I posted I had removed the lube first. I just baked them and the lube melted off.

I had read to never use the Black PC from Harbor Freight because it is abrasive. I'm not against buying some higher end PC going forward. Just wanted to try with the cheap stuff first. I'll definitely check out that Powder Buy The Pound website. Thanks! Another site I found and saw reviews on is Eastwood.com.

The method I used was to tumble in a plastic container with the black airsoft BB's. Apparently they help to create some static. Then I also baked in a toaster oven. This first attempt I purposely didn't coat the bullets too thick. I tried for an even coat that didn't fill in the grooves, etc. There are a few bare sports on the bullets, but I read that would be fine. I guess I'll find out soon enough!

Thanks for the links. I'll definitely read through them!
engineer40
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:29 am

Re: Powder Coated Cast Bullet?

Postby engineer40 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:29 am

Hoot wrote:Forget Lil Gun and H110. Quickload doesn't have that bullet in its database but they do have a flat point, flat base, cast lead 325gr. Changing the weight to 340gr and guessing the length at 1.1 inches; Per QuickLoad, start with 30gr IMR4227, bullet seated to produce 2.26 COL and work up from there. If the bullet is shorter than 1.1, no big deal. If it is longer, reduce charge a grain per .05 additional length. IMR4227 should be a good match up in terms of case fill and propellant burned. H110 almost makes the grade but doesn't fill the case adequately. If you still want to try it, start with 31gr. You don't have much of a comfort window before the pressure shoots up. Maybe 2-3gr. IMHO, 4227 is a better match. Some other powder in between the two would make an even better match but 4227 works. Keep in mind that QuickLoad is a synthetic model. Never seen it underestimate pressure and velocity. It has always erred on the side of caution. As you said, my biggest concern would also be feeding.

Hoot


Sincerely appreciate you running the Quickload for me! Thanks Hoot!

The length of the bullets are actually 0.920. A bit shorter than your estimate. Maybe it's shorter because the meplat is so flat?

Also out of curiosity I just weighed a bunch of them. They actually weighed 348gr, not the advertised 340gr. I've bought lots of jacketed and cast bullets and I don't think I ever had the weights that far off from the advertised.

Did Quickload happen to give you better powder options for cast bullets in this weight? Thanks!

Here is a link to the bullets. Scroll to near the bottom and look for the 340gr. https://www.pennbullets.com/45/45-caliber.html
Last edited by engineer40 on Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
engineer40
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:29 am

Re: Powder Coated Cast Bullet?

Postby engineer40 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:34 am

Colohunter wrote:I tried shooting some powder coated lead 230gr round nose bullets and could never get anything close to a group out them. Even at 50 yards I couldn't consistently get on paper. With a heavier bullet and a little lower velocity you might have better luck. I look forward to your testing.



I read that although PC bullets are helpful to not lead barrels, accuracy per velocity still behaves like standard cast bullets. Maybe you were pushing them too fast like you mentioned?

I have to believe that if I can get this bullet to shoot and feed correctly, it would take about any game out there. So I have my fingers crossed!
engineer40
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:29 am

Next

Return to Reloading for the 450b

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests