450b case gauge

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Re: 450b case gauge

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:19 am

plant_one wrote:from someone who owns a fair selection of ammo gauges, i'd suggest you plunk down the few extra $$ and get the Sheridan engineering style slotted one from Tromix.


plunk gauges are cool and all, but they dont help you diagnose your problem if you have a failure. they're just a yes/no tester - a true one trick pony.

having a cutout gauge allows you to see where your fail point is - where the casing is binding against the inside of the gauge (chamber) - so you know here to focus to correct it.


If you have to diagnose one bad run of ammo, even if its just a few rounds, i can pretty much guarantee you that you're going to thank yourself for spending that extra $10 - i know i have!



as a side note - just because ammo fails a plunk test in one of these style gauges, doesnt necessarily mean its going to fail in YOUR chamber. the Sheridan gauges are cut to SAAMI minimum chamber spec. which means if it passes that gauge, it'll chamber in any firearm that meets at least that minimum saami dimensions. often our guns are cut quite a bit more generous than SAAMI minimum - but still within the accepted min/max tolerance range. however its still a good idea to check if you have a fail to see where the issue is and then do a chamber plunk test as well.

Please give me a phone number for this Trimix
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Re: 450b case gauge

Postby plant_one » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:26 am

http://www.tromix.com/450-bushmaster-parts.html

its right on their website :)


as i understand it - Tromix makes the 450bm cutaway gauges under licence from Sheridan as its their design.


if you want other calibers, you'll have to go direct to Sheridan for them

http://www.sheridanengineering.com/index-2.htm


i need to add a 450 to my ammo gauge collection one of these days :)
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Re: 450b case gauge

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:46 pm

plant_one wrote:http://www.tromix.com/450-bushmaster-parts.html

its right on their website :)


as i understand it - Tromix makes the 450bm cutaway gauges under licence from Sheridan as its their design.


if you want other calibers, you'll have to go direct to Sheridan for them

http://www.sheridanengineering.com/index-2.htm


i need to add a 450 to my ammo gauge collection one of these days :)


Thanks!
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Re: 450b case gauge

Postby Sesshoku » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:42 pm

I'm pretty sure I'll be looking this item up very soon. After shooting a box of factory loads, I decided to test some handloads. My first one chambered, fired and hit right where I expected it to hit. After that, everything went downhill quick, fast and in a hurry. Unfortunately, I more than one misfire, and I have no clue what caused them. Worse, the rounds chambered fine, but after the firing pin went "click" I could neither clear the rifle nor switch it to safe. I could pull the charge handle back maybe an inch then nothing. I eventually got the charge handle pulled back and the chamber cleared, but I had to jerk the heck out of it. The brass had several scratches in it that weren't there before, and the primer had a tiny dent. Apparently the firing pin barely touched it.

I slid another factory round in the magazine, and it chambered and fired exactly as it should. Tried another handload, and it also fired fine despite wanting to hang up on the feed ramp. I chambered another handloaded and "click." Cleared that out, slid in another handload and once again, "Click." This time I t locked up again, worse than the first time. My friend finally got it cleared for me as I'm dealing with a recent surgery on my left shoulder and couldn't get the leverage I needed to clear it. I found similar scratches on the brass. Well, after successful fires on only 2 of my first 5 handloads, I couldn't go home on two straight misfires. So I loaded in a factory round and once again, it fired exactly as it should.

I'm still fairly new to reloading, but I have taken an NRA-certified class. I have had successful runs that fired fine, but I did have a hang fire on batch I made up with the Barnes 200 gr. XPBs. I checked and rechecked COL, my taper crimp and primer depth. I feel like I have been doing everything by the book, but I have to say I'm starting to get extremely frustrated with reloading for this rifle, considering it was the sole reason I got into reloading in the first place. So, maybe I get one of these Tromix case gauges and that gives me some clues as to WTH I'm doing wrong.
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Re: 450b case gauge

Postby Hoot » Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:59 am

Sesshoku wrote:I'm pretty sure I'll be looking this item up very soon. After shooting a box of factory loads, I decided to test some handloads. My first one chambered, fired and hit right where I expected it to hit. After that, everything went downhill quick, fast and in a hurry. Unfortunately, I more than one misfire, and I have no clue what caused them. Worse, the rounds chambered fine, but after the firing pin went "click" I could neither clear the rifle nor switch it to safe. I could pull the charge handle back maybe an inch then nothing. I eventually got the charge handle pulled back and the chamber cleared, but I had to jerk the heck out of it. The brass had several scratches in it that weren't there before, and the primer had a tiny dent. Apparently the firing pin barely touched it.

I slid another factory round in the magazine, and it chambered and fired exactly as it should. Tried another handload, and it also fired fine despite wanting to hang up on the feed ramp. I chambered another handloaded and "click." Cleared that out, slid in another handload and once again, "Click." This time I t locked up again, worse than the first time. My friend finally got it cleared for me as I'm dealing with a recent surgery on my left shoulder and couldn't get the leverage I needed to clear it. I found similar scratches on the brass. Well, after successful fires on only 2 of my first 5 handloads, I couldn't go home on two straight misfires. So I loaded in a factory round and once again, it fired exactly as it should.

I'm still fairly new to reloading, but I have taken an NRA-certified class. I have had successful runs that fired fine, but I did have a hang fire on batch I made up with the Barnes 200 gr. XPBs. I checked and rechecked COL, my taper crimp and primer depth. I feel like I have been doing everything by the book, but I have to say I'm starting to get extremely frustrated with reloading for this rifle, considering it was the sole reason I got into reloading in the first place. So, maybe I get one of these Tromix case gauges and that gives me some clues as to WTH I'm doing wrong.


Sesshoku, were your loads using new brass or recycled brass? I'm guessing the latter. After I resize used brass, I measure the diameter at the fattest point, which should be just above the web (casehead). I do this with a precision micrometer, not a caliper. I then put my reloading candidates in jars labeled with the maximum diameter of the contents. Starting out at the new brass spec of <=.5000, the jar steps are .5000-.5005, .5005-.5010, .5010-.5015, .5015-.5018 and finally Free to a good Home. My chamber actually stops plunking rounds at .5018 max diameter so anything above that is for members with looser chambers. There is no reason that comes to mind that 200gr XPB bullets would cause the cases to bind. They're .451 spec is less than the factory 250 FTX which is .452, so the mouth should have nothing to do with the binding. I know from experience that the chamber get really dirty faster if the loads I'm shooting are sooting up, than if they are sealing from adequate pressure. Regardless of which loads I'm using at the range, I always do a thorough cleaning with solvent, bronze brush and patches after every range session, usually at the range while the barrel is still warm, but not always.

The case gauge you're considering would eliminate the need to measure cases with a micrometer, but it is far easier to measure all your prepped brass prior to loading them, rather than having to pull them back down if they're too fat afterwards. The case gauge would be an insurance step after the rounds are loaded. Sure would be faster than plunking every one in the rifle. Since I began mic'ing my brass diameters, prior to loading them and not using ones beyond .5018, I have not had a stuck case ever since. I learned that the hard way, at the range, after having set everything up for testing. "Once bitten, twice cautious.". Everyone has their own experience with multiple reloading cycles. Mine has been that by about the 5th time, the caseheads have expanded beyond .5018. With stout loads, even sooner.

The bigger concern I had with what you wrote was regarding the light strikes. My experience with cases that were too fat was that they never got seated far enough to allow the firing pin to even work. My gut feeling is that you may be over-crimping the mouths down into the driving band groove with those 200 XPB's and they are going too far into the chamber for the pin to properly reach the rimer. That is a serious concern but not in the same boat as too fat cases. Even though I can drive my taper crimps further down in the groove than is necessary, I never taper crimp them down into the groove further than .474 diameter, as measured very carefully with a micrometer, not a caliper, as close as humanly possible to the actual case mouth lip. If you are measuring all your crimps afterward, not just the first one and you are experiencing headspace issues in your chamber, you need to have a long look at your methodology. Something is not adding up by the time they make it into your chamber.

Rarely do I read here about a problem another member has had, that I didn't experience myself, short of a blowup. I do learn from my mistakes and pass those experiences on to others who may be stuck at the same point as I troubleshot my way out of.

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Re: 450b case gauge

Postby Sesshoku » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:30 am

Thank you for the reply, Hoot. Once again, you have given me great advice and several things to think about. I should mention that these loads were all made with the 250 gr. FTX bullets and previously-fired cases. My previous post wasn't clear about that. The XPB loads were a different batch a year ago, and I've not tried those again since (yet).

I will say that I've likely fallen victim to trusting too much that once I've run the brass through the sizing die, it was where it needed to be size-wise. That is to say I did not check the width for expansion. That step will be added to my process as well as a micrometer. I've had a hell of a time getting consistent measurements with my Hornady digital calipers as the slightest change in placement inside the jaws or pressure on the wheel changes the reading significantly. This is especially true when measuring my crimps (.476 on the FTX and .4745 -.475 on the XPB).

I get fantastic results in accuracy with the Hornady Custom factory ammo I have on hand. I got into reloading in an attempt to protect myself from shortages or nonexistent supply of factory ammo. I believe I've made the correct call in that regard. But frustration is definitely taking hold. Looks like I'll be acquiring a couple more measuring tools and going back to page 1 of the book. Thanks again for giving valuable advice.

Also, good luck with that new hip. I got mine in 2010 (at age 38), worked like hell through the therapy for about a year and now I'm in a much better place. It still lets me know it's there once in a while, but I'm definitely better off than I was.
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