Using 458 projectiles without resizing

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Using 458 projectiles without resizing

Postby Ozz450 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:02 pm

Guys I’m confused. I’m looking at resizing 458 projectiles but came across a post on this site where someone was firing them without resizing.

Can this be done?
What are the advantages / disadvantages?

On a different note, I have been experimenting with my 16in RAR here in Australia. I have focused on win 296 with the 200FTX I cannot get Lil gun and ADI 2205 is way to slow.
Brass has been fired 2 times now with rem 7 1/2 primers. I started with cci primers and the swap to rem primers gave me an extra 80 FPS. Total length of the round was 2.360 which gives me half the CAL seated into the case. I am not using the expander die and I’m not crimping at all. Conditions were very nice for the tropical jungle at 29deg /84F and 70% humidity. I'm using a mag speed crono

48.0 2520
2516
48.5 2530
2540
49.0 2550
2540 at this point I got scared and started increasing at 0.3ish
49.3 2581
2586
49.6 2603
2608
50.0 2615
2618
50.3 2621
2635
50.6 2653
2656
51.0 2675
2680
At this point I have stopped and will work on the 250FTX. 51g is close to capacity without settling the powder somehow. No pressure signs at all some slight sooting and solid recoil. Was not testing for accuracy just testing full stop. However, this leads me to wonder if there is any point in going at this speed as the projectile will probably not stand up to this speed. Therefore, I’m thinking of resizing 458 rifle projectiles. I will use the end load to hunt large rainforest pigs and large scrub Bulls. I'm totally happy with this round but its getting a bit hard at my range because every time I fire a round I turn around and there are 10 people standing behind me wanting to talk about it.

P.S. very nice forum guys been reading for months
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Re: Using 458 projectiles without resizing

Postby Bmt85 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:39 pm

First off, your numbers for the 200FTX are quite impressive! I have to ask though, what is your Case Head Growth and your case length change?

As to the .458's, I do not recall coming across a thread where someone shot them without resizing. Can you provide a link? My thoughts are that you could end up in a very bad position if you don't resize. You will definitely be over pressured, by how much, who knows, but I wouldn't risk it. Even with a bolt gun. I've noticed a difference in CHG from .451 230gr FMJ and .4515 230gr FMJ, not a lot, but it is detectable. It doesn't take much to resize a bullet, so I say just do it. Besides, it'll help even out the bearing surface, that is if the bearing surface isn't uniform as is.
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Re: Using 458 projectiles without resizing

Postby Ozz450 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:28 pm

I did track case head growth and got nothing. I also measured case length and found the shrinkage decreased as charge weight increased. Even at 51g I still got some shrinkage. Good point about bearing surface did not think of that How do you post a link from this site of another thread?

http://450bushmaster.net/viewtopic.php? ... rt=20#p233

Not sure I did that right
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Re: Using 458 projectiles without resizing

Postby Hoot » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:41 pm

The person who wrote that was also the person who told me he blew up more rifles during experimentation, than the sum of all the firearms I owned and I believed him. I own many firearms and that will double with my inheritance from my Dad some day. That person was none other than Tim LeGendre, AKA Wildcatter. He is the progenitor of this caliber and a handful of others. He also had a penchant for drama. He is a true explorer of ideas, both good and questionable. He said that the amount of forced deformation in the bore that was needed to reduce the .458 to .452 diameter, created pressure that was not necessarily catastrophic on a 450b. He also tested some of his ideas with a gun in a vise and a string tied to the trigger. I've never ventured into territory where I needed to remotely test fire a weapon and would also not be likely to try forming .458 bullets into .452 within my bore. I'll leave that for the more adventurous souls who don't consider the replacement cost of a firearm, a big monetary investment. I have sized them down in 3 separate steps. A box of 50 left me with a sore shoulder and elbow, using the mechanical advantage of Rock Chucker. That's a lot of force and again, I did it in 3 separate steps. The error of my decision was doing the majority of them in one evening. Those were 325gr FTX bullets and I have to say, they shot very well in terms of accuracy once I got them clocking fast enough. Not in excess of what my Bartz upper could handle either. The Bartz is not threaded for a brake and I have to say, my will to shoot any more gave out about the time my quantity on hand did. They performed well with AA1680 powder over Rem 7 1/2 primers and taper crimped down into the cannelure. QuickLoad predicted that 1680 was on the slow side for even 325gr bullets. To test that, I laid a sheet down in front of my shooting position. Some of that 1680 came out the barrel unburned. Best 5-shot, 100yd groups were at or slightly above 1700 fps in my 1:24 twist, 20" barrel. With that weight in a FTX cup and core design, that's plenty lethal for any North American big game.

Hoot
In Theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In Practice, there is.
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Re: Using 458 projectiles without resizing

Postby Ozz450 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:02 pm

Thanks for that makes perfect sense not sure I’m that brave either will have to size them down. Looks like I can very easily make them move just need a good projectile perhaps a solid flat point 300g
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Re: Using 458 projectiles without resizing

Postby plant_one » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:52 pm

a lee resizing die is cheap. but if you're gonna put a jacketed bullet thru it - make sure you lube the living daylights out of them!
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Re: Using 458 projectiles without resizing

Postby Bmt85 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:32 am

You could test out 275 TSX or XPB for an expanding bullet. If your looking for a heavier solid flat point, Lehigh and Cutting Edge both make a 300gr. Then there is also the 325gr Barnes Buster. While the Barnes Buster isn't a monolithic copper bullet, it really wasn't designed to expand. All of those bullets are .451-.452, so no resizing required.
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Re: Using 458 projectiles without resizing

Postby Ozz450 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:24 am

Thanks all good advice as always
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