Diving into reloading!

Talk about your 450b reloading experience, ask questions, etc...

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Diving into reloading!

Postby fox400 » Thu May 03, 2018 5:33 am

After having less than wonderful terminal results from factory ammo, I've decided to dive face first into reloading for the 450.(Also gonna start reloading for my 6.5 Grendel because ammo is tough to fine.) Having never reloaded anything in my life, I'm started from scratch. I've been talking to a local guy who has given me a ton of great info to get me to the point that I am at now and has agreed to help me with some initial load developments, but one can never have to much info. I'll be reloading for my APF upper with an 18" stainless barrel and for my Dad's 20" Bushmaster upper. I picked up a RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme Master Kit, a powder trickler, Cabelas Model 400 case cleaning kit, Hornady reloading manual, proper size shell holder, a set of Hornady dies, some Hodgdon H110, CCI 400 primers, some 275 grain Barnes TSX and 250 grain Hornady SST bullets, and I've got a Competition Electronics ProChrono and light kit on the way. I'll be making my own case loading blocks in the very near future.(Being a journeyman Tool and Die maker has its perks.lol) I'm looking for any tips you all could share or anything else that I mite be missing from my list of goodies.
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Re: Diving into reloading!

Postby Pipefitter172 » Thu May 03, 2018 8:24 am

You probably won't need to trim the 450BM brass so you can skip a trimmer, but I would recommend an inside case deburring tool to smooth out the case opening. Lyman makes a hand held model that also has a primer pocket scraper to clean the crud from the primer pockets.
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Re: Diving into reloading!

Postby plant_one » Thu May 03, 2018 9:02 am

one thing you'll have to consider - you need to do load development for BOTH of those rifles. the rule of thumb is "any time you change a component, do another load workup", and your firearm (or more specifically barrel/chamber) needs be considered one of those components of reloading - not just the primer, powder, bullet and brass.


oftentimes you'll find that even two guns of identical manufacture will have different preferences in ideal loads. and possibly two very different safe max loads. you may well find that both guns like the same loads - but you wont know thats an accurate statement until you test it.



start low (published min) and work up loads in 0.5gr increments w/ 3 cartridges per weight until you hit max with both. examine your brass as you work through this ladder of loads. watch for pressure signs, learn to read your primers. i write the charge weights on the side of the casing before i load them so they're easy to keep organized. your tumbler will take the sharpie off for you when you clean them up.


one thing to note about h110 - be cautious as you approach max. this is a powder that can go from 'hey that looks alright' to 'whoah... thats scary' fairly quickly. i dont want to make you nervous, just properly attentive. It'll let you know before it gets into dangerous territory. its just not a powder thats known to be happy about being overloaded into a case.


here is a good read on understanding what your brass is telling you as you shoot it during load testing.
https://www.primalrights.com/library/ar ... g-pressure
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Re: Diving into reloading!

Postby Hoot » Thu May 03, 2018 10:16 am

In seeking to improve upon the "less than wonderful terminal results from factory ammo", can you elaborate on that assessment? Did they not expand? Did they expand too much? Did they dump all their energy inside the deer and not pass through? I ask because if your solution to whichever disappointment you experienced is going to the 275gr monolithic bullet, you may be going in the opposite direction and would be better served by the 200gr monolithic bullet. So, do elaborate on the terminal performance that you're working to correct.

I also reload for a 6.5g AR upper. With a quality barrel and careful load workup, you can get them to shoot 5-shot 100yd groups that can be covered by a dime, off a BR setup. There are a plethora of powders that work well in the 6.5g. My favorite is AR Comp as it has 15 fps variation from -20 to +140F. If you work up loads in the late spring and summer, then hunt in the deep cold of winter, that matters. In either caliber I recommend the Rem 7 1/2 primers, but to be honest, I've never tried CCI 400's. I've got a lot of load workup Range Reports up on the 65grendel forum under the same handle.

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Re: Diving into reloading!

Postby fox400 » Thu May 03, 2018 10:49 am

plant_one wrote:one thing you'll have to consider - you need to do load development for BOTH of those rifles. the rule of thumb is "any time you change a component, do another load workup", and your firearm (or more specifically barrel/chamber) needs be considered one of those components of reloading - not just the primer, powder, bullet and brass.


oftentimes you'll find that even two guns of identical manufacture will have different preferences in ideal loads. and possibly two very different safe max loads. you may well find that both guns like the same loads - but you wont know thats an accurate statement until you test it.



start low (published min) and work up loads in 0.5gr increments w/ 3 cartridges per weight until you hit max with both. examine your brass as you work through this ladder of loads. watch for pressure signs, learn to read your primers. i write the charge weights on the side of the casing before i load them so they're easy to keep organized. your tumbler will take the sharpie off for you when you clean them up.


one thing to note about h110 - be cautious as you approach max. this is a powder that can go from 'hey that looks alright' to 'whoah... thats scary' fairly quickly. i dont want to make you nervous, just properly attentive. It'll let you know before it gets into dangerous territory. its just not a powder thats known to be happy about being overloaded into a case.


here is a good read on understanding what your brass is telling you as you shoot it during load testing.
https://www.primalrights.com/library/ar ... g-pressure


Great article! Thanks for that info...I knew quite a bit of it already, but there were a few things in there that will be very helpful.

I plan on doing 2 separate loads for each upper. It would be great if we could end up with a common load that would work in both guns, but if I don't its not a big deal.
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Re: Diving into reloading!

Postby fox400 » Thu May 03, 2018 11:04 am

Hoot wrote:In seeking to improve upon the "less than wonderful terminal results from factory ammo", can you elaborate on that assessment? Did they not expand? Did they expand too much? Did they dump all their energy inside the deer and not pass through? I ask because if your solution to whichever disappointment you experienced is going to the 275gr monolithic bullet, you may be going in the opposite direction and would be better served by the 200gr monolithic bullet. So, do elaborate on the terminal performance that you're working to correct.

I also reload for a 6.5g AR upper. With a quality barrel and careful load workup, you can get them to shoot 5-shot 100yd groups that can be covered by a dime, off a BR setup. There are a plethora of powders that work well in the 6.5g. My favorite is AR Comp as it has 15 fps variation from -20 to +140F. If you work up loads in the late spring and summer, then hunt in the deep cold of winter, that matters. In either caliber I recommend the Rem 7 1/2 primers, but to be honest, I've never tried CCI 400's. I've got a lot of load workup Range Reports up on the 65grendel forum under the same handle.

Hoot


Myself, my father, and a few friends have all had very similar experiences with the Hornady FTX bullets. No pass through and the bullets turned into frag bombs. My fathers deer was 80 yards away and dropped dead after about 50 yards, upon field dressing it, we discovered the vitals were destroyed. Yet we searched very thoroughly and could only find only 2 quarter size spots of blood on the ground. I shot a buck during the 2016 season at 144 yards. He was in a dirt field. I found 3 very small dime sized spots of blood in the 75 yards he traveled before falling over and again, his vitals were detroyed. While all the deer perished fairly quickly, tracking deer without blood in the areas we hunt is not a fun chore.(My deer in the dirt field was the exception to our normal tracking duties.) The TSX bullets are going to be an experiment and I will try them on whitetails this fall....as long as the deer cooperate.lol My go to round will probably end up being the SST, which has provided years of reliable performance out of my black powder rifle, which is creeping up on 450 bushmaster speeds.

Thanks for the tid bit of info on powder for the Grendel. I have a Ballistic Adavantage 20" SPR profile barrel on my upper. I hope to tackle that reloading project after I get a good load for my fathers and my 450 established. One thing I have noticed so far about my Grendel is it does not like light bullets. 120's were barely holding a 3" group at 100 yards. The black ammo was better, but still not to my liking...roughly a 1.75 group at 100. So far it has liked the 123 grain factory SST the best, holding at just under and inch at 100. With a lot more bullet options, I think the Grendel will prove to be a fun cartridge to work up a good load for. I'll have to check out that forum and see what kind of good info you have up there. Thanks!!
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Re: Diving into reloading!

Postby Hoot » Thu May 03, 2018 11:57 am

Based upon what you said, then yes, the 275gr Barnes are a good way to go. I've never tried them over H110 but it should be right in the sweet zone for that bullet weight. Make sure you seat them to leave a driving band groove almost buried beneath the mouth, to drive the taper crimp down into. I used the front-most groove. That will still leave more powder room than you can safely use.

If you're having trouble visualizing, here's a crude drawing of how I seat my Barnes 275 XPB for taper crimping:

Image

BTW: My Favorite 6.5g load Image

Image

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Re: Diving into reloading!

Postby fox400 » Thu May 03, 2018 1:02 pm

The TSX only has 2 grooves and would use the same taper crimp as the FTX. I've talked with a local guy who has found the sweet spot for his gun with the TSX and H110 and, because of the better BC of the TSX, he is achieving trajectories almost identical to the factory Hornady ammo. I think the TSX would give me better blood trails and pass throughs, if I can find a sweet spot for my gun. If not, I have no problem using the tried and true SST's.

WOW!! I think you have your Grendel load dialed in!!! Are you going to switch to the ELDM now that Hornady has discontinued the AMAX? I'm wanting to build a hunting load for the Grendel for whitetails and am considering the 129 grain SST. Just in case I ever decide to head up north where I could actually use it. And I may load up some varmint loads for it using some of the lighter bullet options, although it will be hard to compete with my 223 since my 223 is much lighter to carry.lol
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Re: Diving into reloading!

Postby Bmt85 » Thu May 03, 2018 1:24 pm

The 275 TSX are great bullets! They open very fast and have no problem penetrating. The 200 XPB is a nice bullet too, but has a higher expansion velocity, so it has a much shorter range limit. I haven't had much of an issue with blood trail using the 275 TSX or the 200 XPB, though the animals don't make it far anyway.

Like you pointed out the 275 TSX only has 2 grooves, but if you window a mag, you can seat them out to catch the first groove. Ends up at around 2.33-2.34". You'll have to verify that your chambers can load that long, but they should. I've only loaded them like that and have never had an issue. Also, getting them to match the ballistics of Hornady factory ammo is done pretty easily, just be careful to watch everything while doing work up.
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Re: Diving into reloading!

Postby fox400 » Thu May 03, 2018 2:11 pm

Bmt85 wrote:The 275 TSX are great bullets! They open very fast and have no problem penetrating. The 200 XPB is a nice bullet too, but has a higher expansion velocity, so it has a much shorter range limit. I haven't had much of an issue with blood trail using the 275 TSX or the 200 XPB, though the animals don't make it far anyway.

Like you pointed out the 275 TSX only has 2 grooves, but if you window a mag, you can seat them out to catch the first groove. Ends up at around 2.33-2.34". You'll have to verify that your chambers can load that long, but they should. I've only loaded them like that and have never had an issue. Also, getting them to match the ballistics of Hornady factory ammo is done pretty easily, just be careful to watch everything while doing work up.


Seeing as I am a first time reloader.....I'm going to be extremely careful.lol I've got a lot to learn, but reading all the information on this forum and talking with a few people, I've learned a ton.

Glad to hear you've had good luck with the TSX. That makes the bullet even more intriguing.
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