Range Report: Lehigh Defense Brass Bullets

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Re: Range Report: Xtreme Defense Brass Bullets

Postby Hoot » Tue May 15, 2018 1:48 pm

papajohn wrote:DANG Hoot, that's pretty darned impressive. If I ever grow up, I wanna be just like you! :P

Does this mean that load development with that bullet is pretty much over?


First off no you don't want to be just like me, but there are parts worth emulating. Other parts have no scrap value and a few are classified as hazardous waste. ;)

No, I may try some over IMR4227. Given the swiping and primer flattening, it may be going in the wrong direction. I have to admit, the recoil impulse from W296 was a little less sharp than the Lil Gun but the overall energy was about the same. Swiping is most often when there's enough pressure presented to the gas port to begin cycling the action before the pressure has dropped enough to not push the case out too hard. You want the case to be pulled out by the extractor with a little help from the residual pressure. In this test, I don't think that was entirely what was happening however. There is such a thing as so much pressure that it pushes the case back regardless of whether the action has begun cycling or not. When that happens, and the bolt begins rotating out of lock, you get a shorter (as in my case) swipe but scratching deep enough to raise a slight burr on the leading edge. I didn't see any imprinting however, so those are conflicting observations. There's a final cause of the kind of swipe I saw and that is not only are the pressures high, but in the case of W296, it took longer to get up to pressure (burn rate) than Lil Gun. There is a correlation to the rate of pressure increase and how tightly the case locks to the chamber walls before being acted upon by the pressure trying to push it back. Again, the culprit is a slightly slower powder as in the relationship between W296 and Lil Gun. Lastly, there are less likely contributors but I've already gone into enough detail to have to digest.

Perhaps, instead of using IMR4227 which I believe is more appropriate for 300 grainers, I may try some of my Aliant 300 MP. IIRC, it is ever so slightly slower than W296 but faster than IMR4227. Going the other direction, I may try Lil Gun again, but a step or two (or three) lower charge than I did in this test. Even knowing that the Brass bullets are slipperier, I'm not comfortable with any load that kicks 245gr bullets out the barrel at 2400+ fps in an AR platform. The Bartz is a beefy built action and less robust ones may not tolerate that kind of pressure = velocity. I would consider 2400+ fps more appropriate for bullets in the 200-225gr range, again in an AR platform. With the pull-downs, I'll have enough bullets to run several different experiments and God knows, I love experimenting.

Note: These loads I worked up are not appropriate starting points for a 1:16 twist bolt action, despite its edge in strength over an AR platform.

Sorry for the windy response.

Hoot
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Re: Range Report: Xtreme Defense Brass Bullets

Postby Hoot » Tue May 15, 2018 6:09 pm

plant_one wrote:...snip...
i bet those would do some serious damage on meat!...snip...


Actually, in doing some advance research, trying (unsuccessfully) to determine a starting point for charge weight, I happened upon a video on YouTube, put out by Lehigh Defense, explaining the difference between the XD and XP bullets. They shoot two identical ballistic gel blocks. One with the XP and one with the XD, one on top of the other. The XP does a lot less damage than the XD and it all seems to get down to the thickness of the front of the blade segments. The XP is more blunt than the XD. Neither deforms but the cavitation produced, as shown by super slow motion, looked to be half as much with the XP. The XD did not make it out of the block but the XP sailed on through. Look it up on YouTube as pictures speak louder than my recollection. There are a lot of less professionally produced videos on YouTube, by shooters using one of those bullets for hunting as well.

Funny story from the Range Day. I had my stuff sitting on my shooting position, including the unfired (destined for pull-down) rounds in the open blue box. At the time, I was the only person on the range. I walked down to pull my targets and I heard another member's car pull up and park. On my way back with my targets, he and a friend (old dudes) (=my age) were unpacking their gear and one was standing there, as members often do, looking at my setup and the bullets. When I got to my position he remarked, "Those are some strange looking rounds, what are they used for?" I plopped down my targets on my shooting table and looking down at them, in a perfect R. Lee Ermey (RIP) voice he loudly said, "Sweet Jesus! You some kind of assassin!? I looked at him in with a dispassionate face and said "Yup." in a downplaying voice and set about acting like I was trying to get the setup packed up and out of sight as quickly as possible. Never said another word, just turned and hurried away, toward his shooting position, where I saw him talking in a hushed voice to his friend. It was hard, trying to keep a serious face on until I finished knocking down my setup and packing the truck. I don't know if they were worried that I was going to pull a John Malkovich move on them (In the Line of Fire) or what? In my rear view mirror, they were still talking and looking at my truck as I drove slowly away. :lol:

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Re: Range Report: Xtreme Defense Brass Bullets

Postby cwlongshot » Wed May 16, 2018 5:45 am

Thanks Hoot!!

I have used this bullet in a couple calibers and every time it ASTOUNDS!!

I agree, no use here for a bullet that can do what this can... Maybe after the lottery win and I start hunting everywhere... :)

I'm starting small, developing economical cast bullet loads here.

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Re: Range Report: Xtreme Defense Brass Bullets

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Wed May 16, 2018 6:26 am

Hahaha! Hoot! Ain’t it fun tripping peoples’ heads?
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Re: Range Report: Xtreme Defense Brass Bullets

Postby papajohn » Thu May 17, 2018 4:24 am

Hoot wrote:First off no you don't want to be just like me, but there are parts worth emulating. Other parts have no scrap value and a few are classified as hazardous waste. ;)


I'm pretty sure I'm either going to include that as a codicil to the intro to my will, or have it made into a bumper sticker, and possibly both. Sheer profundity needs to be shared whenever and wherever possible. What good is being both twisted and right about most things if no one else is in on it?

Good Grief, this is sounding more and more Like Sheldon Cooper. My apologies......unless you enjoyed it! :roll:
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