Where Next Sancho Panza?

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Where Next Sancho Panza?

Postby Hoot » Tue May 22, 2018 8:59 pm

What would you like to see my next experiment be? I'm somewhat open to suggestion.
I can:
Test Hornady 300 gr FTX using newly acquired IMR4227. Something I’ve wanted to do for a while.
Test 230 gr FMJ-FP, though TSD already has I believe. This would be with the current version of Lil Gun.
Test 250 gr Lehigh Defense monolithic Copper Xtreme Penetrators, maybe with the current version of Lil Gun but possibly W296.
ReTest 245 gr Lehigh Defense monolithic Brass Xtreme Penetrators using lesser charge weights like I should have in the first place.
ReTest Barnes 200gr XPB bullets using the current version of Lil Gun.
ReTest Hornady 250 gr FTX using the current version of Lil Gun. The old standard of 38gr seems to run ~150fps faster than the original test. Not necessarily a good thing.

Keep in mind that when I say Test, I’m talking about testing using a 20”, 1:24, Mid-Length gas system, AR upper, not a 16”, 1:16 bolt gun. Sorry bolties...

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Re: Where Next Sancho Panza?

Postby plant_one » Wed May 23, 2018 8:03 am

yes.


:mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Where Next Sancho Panza?

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Wed May 23, 2018 6:11 pm

plant_one wrote:yes.


:mrgreen: :mrgreen:



Ditto

However the 230 Gr Nosler is an upcoming video project for my Ruger American Rifle.
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Re: Where Next Sancho Panza?

Postby Bmt85 » Wed May 23, 2018 8:04 pm

300 FTX? Is that the muzzle loader bullet? Whatever it is, I'd like to see what 4227 is capable of.
Also which Lehigh are you talking about? There is a 250 Penetrator and a 220 Defense, don't see a 250 Defense.

So I would like to see the FTX with 4427, followed by whichever Lehigh you are talking about, and third option I would say the 230 Nosler FP.
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Re: Where Next Sancho Panza?

Postby Hoot » Wed May 23, 2018 9:25 pm

Bmt85 wrote:300 FTX? Is that the muzzle loader bullet? Whatever it is, I'd like to see what 4227 is capable of.
Also which Lehigh are you talking about? There is a 250 Penetrator and a 220 Defense, don't see a 250 Defense.

So I would like to see the FTX with 4427, followed by whichever Lehigh you are talking about, and third option I would say the 230 Nosler FP.


Yes, the 300gr SST-ML. Hornady used to sell just the bullets in boxes of 50 (p/n 45207). I've never use IMR4227 before and it sure is voluminous. About all you can get in a case is around 37-38gr with the bullet seated to yield a COL of 2.29 (as long as my mag holds). That does not appear to be an issue as QuickLoad says that about all you want to put in there. Not sure how accurate QL is with 4227 since it over-predicts W296/H110 by a couple hundred fps in this caliber. At least it used to. Lately, all bets are off... :roll:

Yes, those are Lehigh Defense, Copper 250gr Xtreme Penetrators. At least that's what the box says:

250penetrator.jpg
250penetrator.jpg (95.11 KiB) Viewed 524 times


The tips have a more blunt cross pattern than the Brass 245gr version. Both are more blunt than the pictures of the Xtreme Defense version show.

Once again, I loaded 5) rounds of 250gr FTX as a control group. I used 37gr of the current version of Lil Gun since the 38gr from the last outing ran a little fast. It appears that 37gr is the new normal.

Off to beddy bye. 04:30 comes early.

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Re: Where Next Sancho Panza?

Postby Hoot » Thu May 24, 2018 6:57 am

With only four runs of 5 shots, using the 4227 with the 300gr SST, I'll also do the 230 FMJ-FP bullet test. Hopefully I can get them to run better than the round nose ones. I've struggled multiple times over the years to get the round noses to reliably group at 1 MOA for 5-shots at 100 yds, despite the 225 FTX doing so easily. Side crimping the round noses got more velocity but did nothing to improve accuracy. Hoping that the different geometry of the flat points will offer an improvement. The weather is predicted to be near perfect early in the day, before it heats up.

Hope springs eternal... ;)

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Re: Where Next Sancho Panza?

Postby Bmt85 » Thu May 24, 2018 1:01 pm

I thought the 250 penetrator was the one you were talking about it. There’s a video by TWANGnBANG where a guy shoots that bullet out of a muzzleloader at 2000fps into a gel block. The results are impressive for that speed. You should be able to get it going a bit faster than that out of a 20” 450B.

As to the 230gr FMJ’s, I played with the Nosler FP’s and Sierra’s a little bit, and they showed potential over standard FMJ’s. I know the Sierra’s are .4515, which is probably why they do better, but I believe the Nosler’s do better because of the longer bearing surface, even though they are still .4510 diameter.

Looking forward to your results!
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Re: Where Next Sancho Panza?

Postby Hoot » Thu May 24, 2018 9:11 pm

I wound up using Hornady 1-fired cases as I didn't want to spend the afternoon/evening wet tumbling Starline brass from the last range day. The 300 grainers are using new Starline brass but the 230 FMJ-FP are Hornady brass. This is a new bullet for me, so I stuck to what QuickLoad said would be a safe range of charges (36-41gr Lil Gun). Between the 300's, 230's and the control group of 250 FTX', that's a 50 round range day Saturday. It's supposed to be a scorcher so I'll be on the firing line as early as club rules allow (09:00).

Last outing, the LabRadar chronograph actually behaved well for a change, so I'm hopeful it will do so again Saturday. LabRadar + Concrete Pad + 8ft Plywood ceiling + Muzzle Brake = Temperamental behavior, until I made a blast deflector out of an 18x8x2 concrete paver with 1/4 inch rubber pads on both sides, stood on end, between the rifle and the LabRadar. Still takes a shot or two to get it in a happy place. It tracks these .452 bullets all the way to the target boards at 100yds. Boy do they shed velocity like a shuttle cock! About 1/3 velocity drop from muzzle to 100 yds. IE 2400fps down to 1844fps using the 225 FTX, 2307 to 1894 using the 250 FTX (higher BC) and 2419 down to 1808 using the Lehigh 245gr Brass XP (BC more like the 225 FTX). Cool Gizmo but I'd trade features for simple setup and reliable behavior. Fool and his money... :roll:

Gotta pack my lunch and hit the hay.

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Re: Where Next Sancho Panza?

Postby plant_one » Fri May 25, 2018 7:53 am

i mean if you're that bummed with it i'll give ya $50 for it and even pay for shipping :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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