Problem with W296 powder

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Re: Problem with W296 powder

Postby the_mad_rshn » Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:09 pm

Well gents,

Took all except for one a part. In all the cases one midium bang on the ground was enough for the bullet to come out. I guess reading all the posts now I see where the problem came from. I am guessing the crimp all the way at the end of the bullet did not do much. Oh well!

Thanks again to everyone. I learnt a lot.
Cheers,
Mad
Cheers,
Mad
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Re: Problem with W296 powder

Postby wildcatter » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:58 am

the_mad_rshn wrote:Well gents,

Took all except for one a part. In all the cases one midium bang on the ground was enough for the bullet to come out. I guess reading all the posts now I see where the problem came from. I am guessing the crimp all the way at the end of the bullet did not do much. Oh well!

Thanks again to everyone. I learnt a lot.
Cheers,
Mad


We all have learned allot, thank you for sharing. This is the kind of activity that will make this a great cartridge.

FYI... with my personal side crimp and an enertia bullet puller and against a big heavy chunk of steel, takes 8/10, high hard swings to pull the bullet. Factory rds take 3/4 swings. Very un-scientific but, a good indicator of what's going on..
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Re: Problem with W296 powder

Postby BD1 » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:27 am

I agree that this is a classic case of failure to develop enough pressure to light the powder charge. We have a number of things working against us in this case; slow powder with significant deterent coating, small primers, light bullet, not much neck tension(thin case mouth), and a tough chance for a good crimp. I've had better luck with jacketed bullets using H110 in the cut down .284 cases. This allows the use of a large rifle primer, gives better neck tension due to the thicker brass, and I can get a significant crimp, (At least on the 250 grainers). That said, my accuracy has been better with Lil'Gun on all of the jacketed bullets I've tried, and the small primers don't seem to be any issue with LilGun.

The dimensions of the Hornady brass work well with the cast boolits, allowing a .453 boolit to seat and chamber without issues. However, I still wish for the large primer pocket to light the slower powders for cast.

I'm back down in the Low Country of SC, and just joined the only outdoor range within an hours drive. My reloading room is still packed in boxes, but as soon as I get a chance I'll get set up and start back into load development. My goal is still cast boolits in the 300 grain range at 1,800 to 2,000 fps. But I'm playing with the jacketed stuff as well. I rang the 12" 300 yard gong on Saturday with my second shot using the 250 grain FTX's over LilGun. That was satisfying, (and bought me some credibility being the "new guy" on the firing line :) At least I know I'm good to go for pigs.
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Re: Problem with W296 powder

Postby the_mad_rshn » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:04 pm

I wonder how well this cartridge would shoot a No. 7 shot for home defense loaded with H-110;-)

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Mad
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Re: Problem with W296 powder

Postby pitted bore » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:46 am

wildcatter wrote:FYI... with my personal side crimp and an enertia bullet puller and against a big heavy chunk of steel, takes 8/10, high hard swings to pull the bullet. Factory rds take 3/4 swings. Very un-scientific but, a good indicator of what's going on..


T-
Thanks for trying the experiment I suggested. It confirms something I've suspected - that your method applies a crimp that really locks bullets into the cases. I don't think I'm going to make much further progress with the 185-grain bullets until I can do something similar.
--Bob
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Re: Problem with W296 powder

Postby wildcatter » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:43 am

pitted bore wrote:
wildcatter wrote:FYI... with my personal side crimp and an enertia bullet puller and against a big heavy chunk of steel, takes 8/10, high hard swings to pull the bullet. Factory rds take 3/4 swings. Very un-scientific but, a good indicator of what's going on..


T-
Thanks for trying the experiment I suggested. It confirms something I've suspected - that your method applies a crimp that really locks bullets into the cases. I don't think I'm going to make much further progress with the 185-grain bullets until I can do something similar.
--Bob

Show-nuff Doc, A.K.A., Bad Bob, for you to progress, the side crimp and the 185's are the trick. I did a bunch of development for that bullet in the 45 Pro and 1680 powder, way slower than even 296, I've seen "Lab Speeds" I do not want to quote here. (PM, me and I'll tell ya). Even though we are seeing data far different from the pro and powders quite faster than I'm used too, the 185's should be working really well by now, I suspect that it's the taper crimp that is the major culprit.

Something for you guys, about the LeGendre Side Crimp.. The Lee Factory Crimp Die has a crimp length of about .125". I make mine about half or even less of that. I do it by chucking up the collet and cutting the factory crimp flange back (about .020" or so) from the top of the collet and then trimming the die body and collet back sufficiently enough to cause a very heavy, buy narrow crimp groove, on the outside of the case. After I side crimp I do a light taper crimp as a final step, to make sure there is no flaring that can slow feeding in a dirty chamber.

This Side Crimp is so good and even way better than the std roll crimp, AND, without any of the associated problems that a roll crimp can cause, that I suspect that one day our side crimp will become the std protocol for SAMMI, and then used by all the ammo manufactures, On All Cartridges..

As soon as I can get this pressure equipment on line, I'll do a test, someone here suggested, and I forget who it was, but I'll pressure/speed check the factory loads and then from the same lot, I'll side crimp the factory fodder and re-analogize the data string. Should give us some real good stuff to chew on..
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Re: Problem with W296 powder

Postby BD1 » Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:23 pm

Using the 290 grain lead boolit I designed for the .450B which has a crimp groove sized, and located, to fit my side crimp die which is modified like wildcatters, I cannot pull a loaded round with an inertia puller, or my RCBS collet puller. To pull them I have to run the round up into my rockchucker without a die and clamp vise grips to the bullet, then lower the ram against the vise grips to pull the boolits. It does wreck the boolits, but I just remelt them and cast them again.
Rounds loaded like this have single digit SDs. Unfortunately I cannot get as good a crimp on the jacketed bullets due to the lack of a cannelure with the correct shape and location. If we can decide as a group just where we'd like the crimp to fall, we may be able to convince Hornady to put a cannelure there for us to crimp into.

Another modification that the Lee FCD needs is to have the hard corners radiused where the collet hits the brass. Before I did this I noticed that my brass would develop a definite line, (weak spot?), on both sides of the crimp after two or three loadings. At the 40,000 psi level we're talking for the 450B, brass should last a long time. I don't want to reduce that brass life any more than necessary by using the side crimp.

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