Makers 425 gr. sub-sonic

[coyote wacker]

I just picked up several boxes of Makers 425 gr sub-sonic bullets. Talked to Paul he gave me a start load using AA #9 there's none available around me. He tried 296, it just wasn't that accurate. I have a bunch of Enforcer its little slower than AA #9. My main concern is close to 100% burn, I'am using a Ruger American with 16" barrel.

There's not enough room to use Trail Boss, seating bullet out to rifling only can get 8.6 grains. 12.5 gr. was getting me with CEB 250 gr. Raptor pistol bullet with a tip 1050 fps. at 30F elevation 780'.

If someone has access to Quick Load let me know what perimeters you need.

[Hoot]

I just picked up several boxes of Makers 425 gr sub-sonic bullets. Talked to Paul he gave me a start load using AA #9 there's none available around me. He tried 296, it just wasn't that accurate. I have a bunch of Enforcer its little slower than AA #9. My main concern is close to 100% burn, I'am using a Ruger American with 16" barrel.

There's not enough room to use Trail Boss, seating bullet out to rifling only can get 8.6 grains. 12.5 gr. was getting me with CEB 250 gr. Raptor pistol bullet with a tip 1050 fps. at 30F elevation 780'.

If someone has access to Quick Load let me know what perimeters you need.

Though I'm accustomed to using QuickLoad to calculate supersonic loads and they don't have the Makers 425 in its database, I took the 325 Barnes Buster and changed its length to 1.382 and weight to 425, then ran it through its computations. The result was to use 30gr (97% fill) of Hodgdon H380, yielding a 16" mv of 1033fps when loaded to a COL of 2.41. You'll be throwing about half the powder out the barrel unburned so you're probably going to have a mess in the can to clean up every so often. There are enough variables in this modeling run to probably advise you to start a few grains lighter and work up, but then that's always good advice. QuickLoad does not allow you to play around with barrel twist rate.

Let us know how you fare.

Hoot

[coyote wacker]

I was thinking of using faster powders than we normally use in the 450 BM.

One problem with suppressors with unburnt powder, if you get enough inside its possible to get detonation.

My suppresser is a Hybrid, sealed, not serviceable.

[Hoot]

I was thinking of using faster powders than we normally use in the 450 BM.

One problem with suppressors with unburnt powder, if you get enough inside its possible to get detonation.

My suppresser is a Hybrid, sealed, not serviceable.

And therein lies the rub. The faster powders will occupy a less than prudent amount of case capacity in order to keep the velocity down. Not sure how you fix that without a duplex load of different powders = lots of experimentation + dancing with the devil!

Hoot

[Bmt85]

That's interesting, I had a feeling it would need slower powders, but not that slow. Even 458 Socom uses faster powders than that for there subs, and they have more case capacity. With a bolt action, it will probably work, but for an AR, I doubt you could ever get those to cycle the action. I was thinking about trying Shooters World Blackout and a shorter c.o.a.l.

[Hoot]

That's interesting, I had a feeling it would need slower powders, but not that slow. Even 458 Socom uses faster powders than that for there subs, and they have more case capacity. With a bolt action, it will probably work, but for an AR, I doubt you could ever get those to cycle the action. I was thinking about trying Shooters World Blackout and a shorter c.o.a.l.

Not familiar with Shooters World Blackout myself but have read that its like AA1680 Improved. The deeper seat has merit but also foibles. The 450b case wall is tapered and gets thicker the further down you go. It may result in case bulge that prevents chambering if you seat them in too far. This was for me, the kiss of death in trying to get 284 Win cases that were cut down, to work. I really didn't want to go to a reamer in order to get them to function reliably. I'm sure someone has cracked the code with the a suppressed subsonic 450b. Put Google to work! Or, be happy with a slightly supersonic suppressed 450b. From what little I've read about suppressed 450b's, its enough of a challenge just getting them to cycle reliably without worrying about keeping them subsonic to boot.

Hoot

[Bmt85]

Shooter's World Blackout is suppose to be a little slower than 1680, but gets better velocities at similar pressures. It also doesn't get spikey like 1680. From the info I've gathered anyway, haven't been able to play with it much. It seems to be doing very well in my 7.62x39, though.

As to the 425gr Maker's bullet, I loaded a couple down to the driving band, so around 2.26" coal I believe. It's been a while since I messed with them, but I don't remember any issues with chambering. Hopefully I will get some time in the near future to actually load some. I know Black Butterfly added the 425gr Maker's sub loads not long ago. No clue if it will cycle an AR, but should work just fine in a bolt gun.

I actually just ordered a custom 10.5" 1:16 twist barrel with pistol length gas system from X-Caliber. They are having a sale, so it cost me $200. Got it strictly for a subs project. It'll be a while before I get it, but it's probably going to be even longer until I can actually do some testing. Life getting in the way, as usual. Might start looking for a suppressor shortly.

[coyote wacker]

Here's a little more information , that may help with Quick Load
Bullet length....1.394"
OAL with bullet seated....2.20"
Case weight empty....168.8 gr.
Case weight full of water....226.5 gr.
Case with water to base of bullet....192.5 gr.
Weight of water with bullet seated....23.7 gr.

I will not be shooting in any rifle other than a Ruger American with a 16" barrel. AR-15 function or pressures are of no concern.

Faster powders work better with suppressors as close to 100% burn and at least 60% volume, will give less of muzzle flash and be quiet sub-sonic.

[Mayhem Arsenal]

Have you looked into VV Tin Star?

[plant_one]

in my expierence - shooters world blackout (lovex do-63) is actually a little faster than 1680. i had to reduce my quantities a few tenths of a grain to maintain my subsonic speed in the blackout vs 1680.


however the big plus i found compared to 1680 is how CLEAN it burns. like 1/4 of the crap (or less) than 1680 leaves behind.