Lehigh 265gr controlled fracturing muzzle loader bullets

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Lehigh 265gr controlled fracturing muzzle loader bullets

Postby GoBlue450 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:57 am

Hey guys, I built an ar style 450B once it became legal to hunt with in Michigan. I now have built many 450s for myself and for friends. Ever since getting into the 450 round I have been stalking these pages, and learning quite a bit. I finally decided to join and have some fun.

Just to give a little bit of background, I’ve been shooting pretty much everything for pretty much my entire life. I would consider myself a relatively experienced shooter Who has been bitten by the 450 bug. I have been re-loading for about 10 years now In calibers including 300blk, .223/5.56, 9mm, .38 special, .308 win, etc... and I feel like I have come up with a few loads that do pretty darn good in the 450B. I am still experimenting, always trying to find a better load. I am by no means a professional and I am always looking to learn and to try to become better. This seems to be by far the most informational and community helping forum I have come across.

So long story short, One of my buddies who hunts with a muzzleloader gave me a box of Lehigh 265gr controlled fracturing .452 diameter muzzleloader bullets. I scoured the load data and I couldn’t find any examples of this bullet being loaded into 450 B. I’m curious if anybody has tried this specific bullet, and if so what was the load and what were the results. My favorite powder to use is LilGun, And I had my most consistent groups with CCI small rifle magnum primers, although I’ve had good success with the non-magnum primers as well. I would love to get feedback from anybody who has loaded this bullet, or any suggestions in general would be extremely helpful thank you!
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Re: Lehigh 265gr controlled fracturing muzzle loader bullets

Postby Hoot » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:18 am

Welcome Aboard Blue!

I'll go out on a limb and say that you can use a Lil Gun recipe for the Barnes 275 XPB/TSX and it will be close to perfect. Maybe tweak the charge +.5 gr or just leave it alone if you dn't have many to play with.

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Re: Lehigh 265gr controlled fracturing muzzle loader bullets

Postby Bmt85 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:27 pm

You should be ok starting at Hodgdons data for the 275 TSX, but I have a feeling its going to hit pressure before the TSX. The TSX has driving bands and has a diameter of about .4505. Noticed similar situation when I started playing with Makers 250gr. It has no driving bands (actually it has a small one for crimping) and a diameter of .4515. It hit pressure a lot quicker than the TSX in two different barrels (16" Bushy and 18" Tromix). I'm thinking about trying a couple different slower powders and see what it can be pushed to.
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Re: Lehigh 265gr controlled fracturing muzzle loader bullets

Postby GoBlue450 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:08 pm

Hey guys, thank you for the recommendations, my concern was pressure. As always I’ll just start low and work up. I do have some win 296 and some Alliant 2400 laying around that I could try. Its a pretty gnarly looking projectile and looks like they’ll do some damage based on the YouTube videos I’ve watched. If I can find a load that my gun likes I’ll try it on deer this year.

3 deer on the property that I hunt have been shot with 250gr Hornady FTX factory loads, all 3 were perfect double lung shots, and all 3 ran between 100-200 yards. They were all recovered but with very little blood to follow and less than impressive entry and exit holes. I’m hoping this pill will have a little greater terminal effect.

It’ll probably take a while for me to load them (full time job and a 5 month old) but once I do and find time to get to the range I’ll post the results.

As a side note, I love all of the good insights Hoot, you and all of the other members here are full of great information. Thank you again guys.
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Re: Lehigh 265gr controlled fracturing muzzle loader bullets

Postby Hoot » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:06 am

GoBlue450 wrote:Hey guys, thank you for the recommendations, my concern was pressure. As always I’ll just start low and work up. I do have some win 296 and some Alliant 2400 laying around that I could try. Its a pretty gnarly looking projectile and looks like they’ll do some damage based on the YouTube videos I’ve watched. If I can find a load that my gun likes I’ll try it on deer this year.

3 deer on the property that I hunt have been shot with 250gr Hornady FTX factory loads, all 3 were perfect double lung shots, and all 3 ran between 100-200 yards. They were all recovered but with very little blood to follow and less than impressive entry and exit holes. I’m hoping this pill will have a little greater terminal effect.

It’ll probably take a while for me to load them (full time job and a 5 month old) but once I do and find time to get to the range I’ll post the results.

As a side note, I love all of the good insights Hoot, you and all of the other members here are full of great information. Thank you again guys.


W296 would be a good, slightly slower than Lil Gun burning choice but don't bother with the 2400. I've worked with it and while it was functional with 200gr or lighter bullets in this caliber, the pressure really spiked as I went up in charge. Not a linear progression like Lil gun.

A lot of us are working stiffs. I've got a year and 4 months to go before I'm a free man! ;)

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Re: Lehigh 265gr controlled fracturing muzzle loader bullets

Postby coyote wacker » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:15 am

With out bands your going to reach maximum pressure with a copper bullet before one with bands or even a cup-core of the same weight. Those bullets are designed for use in sabots. If you remember Barns first solid copper bullets had no bands, they reached high pressure before all cup-core bullets and were lucky to get close to cup-core bullet velocities. It was hit and miss in the accuracy department, some guns were tack drivers others gave more of a buckshot patten.

You want to use a bullets that expands like Lehigh Controlled Fracturing try Cutting Edge Bullets. I've shot hundreds of game animals with them. thousands in wet paper media, its the only bullet I will use on game animals.

These are designed to work in a AR-15 length magazine

https://cuttingedgebullets.com/452-160g ... ase-raptor ......with Lil'Gun 2700 fps is possible with 20" AR-15 safety
https://cuttingedgebullets.com/452-250g ... ......with Lil'Gun 2200 fps is possible with 20" AR-15 safely

I you can add pointed tips to these and use them in a bolt action or single shot. Depending on your gun they can be loaded longer for more case capacity.

https://cuttingedgebullets.com/45-150gr-handgun-raptor
https://cuttingedgebullets.com/45-240gr-handgun-raptor
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Re: Lehigh 265gr controlled fracturing muzzle loader bullets

Postby GoBlue450 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:04 am

Hoot, I’ll work up some 296 loads and won’t bother with the 2400. Thank you for saving me some powder :lol:

Coyote, those Cutting Edge bullets look awesome! I will eventually try the 250gr. The reason I’m asking about the Lehigh controlled fracturing is because I was given a box by a buddy of mine so the price was right! I figured I’d give them a shot (no pun intended...but it works)

That gets me thinking...if the bands do that great of a job keeping the pressure from spiking and the bore from fouling, why not just throw the bullets on a lathe and cut some bands? It would be easy to measure the bearing surface on the Barnes XPB bullet and measure the percentage of surface area removed by the bands. Then you can use that to estimate how many and how large the bands need to be cut. As long as the depth and width is controlled properly, the grain weights will remain consistent (but obviously slightly lighter). Has anyone tried this?
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Re: Lehigh 265gr controlled fracturing muzzle loader bullets

Postby Hoot » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:15 pm

GoBlue450 wrote:Hoot, I’ll work up some 296 loads and won’t bother with the 2400. Thank you for saving me some powder :lol:

Coyote, those Cutting Edge bullets look awesome! I will eventually try the 250gr. The reason I’m asking about the Lehigh controlled fracturing is because I was given a box by a buddy of mine so the price was right! I figured I’d give them a shot (no pun intended...but it works)

That gets me thinking...if the bands do that great of a job keeping the pressure from spiking and the bore from fouling, why not just throw the bullets on a lathe and cut some bands? It would be easy to measure the bearing surface on the Barnes XPB bullet and measure the percentage of surface area removed by the bands. Then you can use that to estimate how many and how large the bands need to be cut. As long as the depth and width is controlled properly, the grain weights will remain consistent (but obviously slightly lighter). Has anyone tried this?


I've got an easier fix that that. Shot plate them with HBN or WS2. I don't include MoS too much anymore due to its hygroscopic nature and too many shooters who are too lazy to clean after every range session. HBN is the easiest route in terms of friction reduction while not being as messy as mime makeup like WS2. I tried both in my 450b using cup and core bullets but the sword of pressure cuts both ways. There's also too little. With monolithic copper bullets you might just find that it combines the benefits from each. Friction aside, bore cleanup is pretty easy as an added bonus.

There always more than one path you can go down.

Hoot

PS: i'll send you enough HBN and WS2 powder to plate some of those freebies if you want to give it a try
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Re: Lehigh 265gr controlled fracturing muzzle loader bullets

Postby GoBlue450 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:55 pm

Hoot, that’s a great idea! I’ve been wanting to try HBN or WS2 for a while, I think this is a good excuse to get some. I very much appreciate the offer for some powder but I think I’ll order some to have to play around with. I’m always looking for an excuse to give MidwayUSA my money :lol:

Out of curiosity have you performed any chrono testing pre and post coating? I’ve heard that speed drops slightly due to reduced pressure.

Thank you again for the suggestions! I’m excited to get these loaded!
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Re: Lehigh 265gr controlled fracturing muzzle loader bullets

Postby Hoot » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:31 am

GoBlue450 wrote:Hoot, that’s a great idea! I’ve been wanting to try HBN or WS2 for a while, I think this is a good excuse to get some. I very much appreciate the offer for some powder but I think I’ll order some to have to play around with. I’m always looking for an excuse to give MidwayUSA my money :lol:

Out of curiosity have you performed any chrono testing pre and post coating? I’ve heard that speed drops slightly due to reduced pressure.

Thank you again for the suggestions! I’m excited to get these loaded!


I published some results using WS2 and 200gr Barnes XPB bullets back about 8 years ago. Surprisingly, the velocity hit only averaged about -20fps. Here's a meta link to XPB bullet tests including expansion at various distances, that's from back in the same time frame.

There's a wealth of groundwork over the years within this forum. Lots of "Range Reports" from yours truly and others.

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