Hello, new here question on buying powder for bolt 450

Talk about your 450b reloading experience, ask questions, etc...

Moderator: MudBug

Forum rules
Please try and keep it safe!

This information is the responsibility of the community, not the forum. 450bushmaster.net is not responsible if you blow yourselves up.

Hello, new here question on buying powder for bolt 450

Postby Rollins » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:18 pm

Hello, I am new and had a few questions.
I have a ruger 450 American I bought a few years ago and did some hunting with factory ammo. But at the price and availability I am looking to reload. I originally was looking at using cast but with the guidence from cast boolit forums I decided to use jacket bullets first.

I have been looking at making a cheap practice load and for small critters like coyotes and then using factory or good quality bullets reloaded for deer.

Reading some posts I saw here when I goolges, some people used everglades ammo which is cheap and got good marks. So i bought their 451 dia, 45 ammo at 250 grains and then from midway for cheap ammo. and some 300 gr speer deep curls at 452 dua, listed for the 454 casual to use for hunting if they do well.

Now there doesnt seem to be many loads for 450 bm. I got a little thing with my lee reloaded dies and checking poweder manufacture websites it seems that the only constant is lil gun.

However some posts say that lil gun is not great for 450 if above the 225 grain mark. Since I plan on shooting 250 on up, what is a good powder? I have reloaded for my 308 and used varget which is not suitable so I need to buy powder. Preferably a powder that is common and easy to get local, and better yet could be used in other calibers, though if i have to have a 450 specific powder I would do it.

For the 308 it seems like every powder and ammo maker has load data online. 450 bm not so much.
I did look at buying a reloader book but it seems like you need a bunch as they seem powder maker or bullet maker specific. Is there a reloading manual that would have different bullet and powder maker lists put together so ibdint have to buy like 4 books?
Rollins
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:07 pm

Re: Hello, new here question on buying powder for bolt 450

Postby Hoot » Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:02 pm

Welcome Aboard Rollie!

Lil Gun is good up through 275gr with H110/W296 sharing 275 and up to 300gr. I had good luck with 1680 behind resized 325gr FTX for .458.

A reasonably priced bullet that will make you look better than you'd expect, its hard to beat the 225 FTX over Lil Gun. Good for up to deer if you intend to lung shoot them. Not so good spot on the shoulder. Pretty easy to get 1 MOA 5-shot groups at 100 yds with an optic and a stable resting position. 27₵ a bullet from several suppliers.
As for manuals, I've always been partial to Hornady but you may find more pre-tested load selection from other brands of books. They tend to advise on the lawyer approved, tame side since they have to consider the AR platform but that can serve as a starting point for a bolt action. I reloaded many calibersfor almost 25 years before stumbling onto the 450b, so I had a good feel for it before venturing down that path. Keep your primers hot, like (in order of preference) Remington 7 1/2, Winchester WSR and CCI 450.

Keep in mind that this is a "rainbow trajectory" caliber, so don't go crazy reaching out on varmints. IMHO, it is the perfect deep woods / brush caliber where shots beyond 75 yards are almost unheard of but I would not hesitate to take it out to 150 yards. Some others will take it further but I'd rather play to its strengths. I have plenty of calibers to choose from beyond 150 yards.

If you hadn't already spent your hard earned money on other bullets, I'd recommend the 225 FTX over 38gr of Lil Gun, seated to ~2.12 COL allowing you to taper crimp down into the cannelure. Yields 5-shot, 100 yd groups like this (1/2 inch grid):

Image

Good Luck and remember, there's n such thing as a dumb question.
In Theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In Practice, there is.
User avatar
Hoot
 
Posts: 5083
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:34 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: Hello, new here question on buying powder for bolt 450

Postby Rollins » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:08 am

Thanks.i have read what i can find but a lot of info seems to be about what works in AR rifles so more variables than a bolt gun, like gas to cycle, bolt damage etc

I actually think it was you who had a post about using everglade ammo? If they work well its great cus buying in bulk can get them down to like 14 cents a round I think. I paid 20 cents a piece I think cuz I only got 100 to test. And they have a few versions of the 250 grain hp to trt.

I bought the deep curl becouse they were afforable and in stock at midway. someone on cast boolits forum said to look for ammo made for the 454 as it should hold up to hunting with tge 450 . So would you reccomemd lil gun if trying to shoot 250-300 grain bullets?

Where I am its flat amd pretty brushy so 300 yds max in a few places to get a shot,most are 200ish yds and i would probably keep my shots 100-150 yes. Though on factory ammo its supposed to be a point blank killshot from 100 to 200 of zeroed a little high at 100.

For coyotes probably 100 yds unless I practice and feel I can hit. Energy wise I think I could kill out past 300 yds but hiting them seems unlikely. I did tag one one 2 years ago with hornady black at like 30 yds, dropped dead onbthe spot. The entry and exit holes were small, i dont think the bullet even expanded.
Rollins
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:07 pm

Re: Hello, new here question on buying powder for bolt 450

Postby Rollins » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:17 am

Hmmm looks like I made a mistake, the everglade 45 cal hollowpoints are 230 grains. What is interesting is that the lee reloader card lists a load for lil gun at 225 and one at 250. But it is absent at 230. Seems strange
Rollins
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:07 pm

Re: Hello, new here question on buying powder for bolt 450

Postby Hoot » Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:50 am

Rollins wrote:Hmmm looks like I made a mistake, the everglade 45 cal hollowpoints are 230 grains. What is interesting is that the lee reloader card lists a load for lil gun at 225 and one at 250. But it is absent at 230. Seems strange


I don't recall testing Everglades ammo. I have tested 300gr DeepCurl/Gold Dots but accuracy was not to my satisfaction. For 230gr JHP, the recipe for 225 FTX or 230 FMJ will work. Its not that fussy. Prudence dictates that you work up anyway. If you're dead set on hollow points, the Hornady XTP Mag line will take the velocity but to be honest, at the ranges you're considering, over expansion will most likely not be an issue as this caliber sheds velocity quickly, like a shuttle cock. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but if it were me and I was looking at ethical kills at 150-300 yards, I'd probably reach for my .30-06, .308, .260, .243. For woods hunting 100 yds and in, the 450b would get the call every time. Again, that's just my opinion but in MN, there is a generous rifle zone. I actually live in the shotgun only zone to the south but not much access to huntable land close to me. MN still does not allow straight walled rifles in the shotgun only zone. Maybe in the next few years...

Hoot
In Theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In Practice, there is.
User avatar
Hoot
 
Posts: 5083
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:34 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: Hello, new here question on buying powder for bolt 450

Postby Rollins » Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:12 am

I guess I was mistaken, in was doing research and I read a post on everglades ammo for plinking and i thougt it was from here, but i guess not.

Yeah I would like to use a 308 but I am in limited michigan fire arm area.still better than being forced to use a slug gun though.

Due to terrain most of my shot would be 100-200 yds.
When having to use muzzle loader most shots were 40-100 yes. With bushmaster I would like to stretch that a bit if possible.

I have seen people post amd talk about taking a deer out to 350 yds they said. But they loaded specifically for the bolt action so higher pressure than listed and used some of them expensive Barnes bullets i think.

For me 200 yrs is prolly the max and most shots under it.

What weight range seems to be the sweet spot? It seems like there is a certain point where the size of the bullet starts to take up to much case space you lose power. 300 grains it seems to lose a lot of velocity as the powder load goes down a bit due to case size.

I will see what the gun store has for powder, it looks like lil gun is what I should get, except its performance drops with the heavy 300 grain bullets.

One quick question. When I roaded for my 308 I just did the col for my bullet I selected that was listed. However I have been thinking and windering something.

I dunderstand you need a min col so that the ammo feeds and doesn't compress the powder to much from the bullet being deep seated. And I understand the max col to keep the bullet from going into the lands when loaded and getting a pressure spike.

So why do they list different col for each bullet? Its not much but just a little. Why not just have the min and max listed? I mean if my col just at or under the max listed for it. It should feed and fire safely and fine right? With the bushmaster it seems every different bullet has different col listed, even if the bullet is the same weight.
Rollins
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:07 pm

Re: Hello, new here question on buying powder for bolt 450

Postby plant_one » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:01 am

Rollins wrote:
So why do they list different col for each bullet? Its not much but just a little. Why not just have the min and max listed? I mean if my col just at or under the max listed for it. It should feed and fire safely and fine right? With the bushmaster it seems every different bullet has different col listed, even if the bullet is the same weight.


no two bullets are the same shape, so COL for a given bullet is the recomended COL for *that* bullet.

switch weight, switch manufacturer, switch design in the same weight class - and you have a COMPLETELY different bullet. using OAL data for a different ogive placement on the bullet could potentially end up with a round being jammed into the lands - and therefore unsafe due to likely pressure spike - therefore each bullet has a different recomended COL.
User avatar
plant_one
 
Posts: 1109
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:58 pm
Location: Oakland County, MI


Return to Reloading for the 450b

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 29 guests