Headspace /Crimp Questions

[rob cullen]

Hi all, have just joined your forum after my first handloads for 450 had a couple of dud firing pin strikes and im not understanding why.
Brief Intro - I have been reloading Lithgow 308 for a while now and reasonably confident with my loads and results,
I just picked up a Savage Wolverine 110 BM Bolt gun last week and have been shooting a few factory loads to get a feel for it and luv it but in West Australia a box of 20 HDY 250 Black and Fed 300 power shock are going for $65 a box so i ordered reloading dies quicksmart. HDY 4 die set with taper crimp die
Heres a run down of what i did and hopefully you guys can help me out with your experience as i have zero with this calibre.

Loaded up 15 cases from factory fired HDY Black 250 FTX with HDY 200Gr FTX , did not trim as case length was approx 1.692 - 1.696'' . Sized with HDY dies as per their instructions ( pretty sure i got this right ) , did not flare cases , seated bullets to 2.189'' with 41 Gr ADI 2205 ( same as Hodgdon H110 , IMR 4227 , AA 1680 according to ADI data sheet.) I then loaded 5 cases from factory fired Fed P/shock 300Gr exactly the same. I taper crimped all loads with seperate Hdy die as per their instructions

I went bush yesterday to try these and i shot 4 ( HDY ) case and got all holes touching which i was pretty bloody happy with ( only 50 metres as i got 4 x scope and my eyes aint good enough to see the holes at 100 ) i then fired next round and heard a click, ejected and had a look and there was barely a dent on the primer. Tried another and all good - nice pin strike , then the next was click no boom, ejected and barely a dent. I then shot the five Fed cases and all good with good pin strikes , checked the HDY cases that worked and all good strikes. At this stage im confused as hell and packed it in.

First thoughts are i have over crimped and dicked the headspace - now this is the bit where i am lost - i have measured the case right at the end on my remaining 9 Hdy case handloads and get .4770'', the factory HDY measures .4770 and the Feds im measuring .4785'' Just dug up the SAAMI specs and it says .4800'' It also says the chamber internal diameter is .453'' ( where the bulet sits ) so i cannot see how .4770'' shell OD can possibly squish into a .4530'' hole and increase headspace
As said i have zero experience with reloading 450 apart from this
Appreciate thoughts from you guys to point me in the right direction
Thankyou
Rob
PS these 450s are wicked fun and i killed my first melon yesterday with 300 fed and it pretty much just vapourized lol

[2500 HD]

You mentioned that you didn’t trim any cases.
Measure the case on the failed loads. Are they shorter than the ones that fired?

[Bmt85]

Just to double check, you crimped your handloads to around .4770, correct? That should be fine, you could even take the crimp down a little more if you have a problem with the bullets shifting from recoil. Case lengths also sound good.

What primers are you using?

I take it you didn't have an issue with the reloaded federal brass (probably the same brass as Hornady).

You could have a headspace issue with the rifle itself. Maybe you have an issue with the firing pin, as in some kind of obstruction or bad tolerances. I would do a tear down and cleaning on the rifle, look everything over, put it back together, then shoot it again. Use both your handloads and factory ammo at the same time.

[Texas Sheepdawg]

Make absolutely sure that the firing pin channel in the rifle is clean. Also what kind of primers are you using and what method are you using to install the primers?

[rob cullen]

Hi Bmt
Just double checked and diameter is bang on .4770''

Primers were CCI BR4 which the guy at gun shop told me to use - i just read up on and it says bench rest primers which i guess is overkill for this gun

The 5 Fed reloads all worked fine , i will pull her down today and see if i can find anything wrong with bolt / firing pin assy
I will try handloads and factory on next shoot and let you know how it goes .
Thankyou
Rob

Hi 2500
The dud Hdy cases measured 1.6920 and 1.6935 . The Hdy ones that fired are measuring 1.6920 to 1 .16910.
The 5 Feds that fired are measuring 1.695 to 1.6925'' I also have some new Starline Brass that i want to reload over break and im getting 1.693'' case length ( unfired )
With my limited knowledge this all looks good yea ?
Anyhow , i will see if i can get a couple of pics through and let you guys know how i go
Thankyou
Rob

[rob cullen]

Hi Tex
I will check firing pin this morning and let you know
Primers are CCI BR4
Using Lee Hand primer - The one with Triangular plastic tray
Cheers
Rob

[Texas Sheepdawg]

Hi Tex
I will check firing pin this morning and let you know
Primers are CCI BR4
Using Lee Hand primer - The one with Triangular plastic tray
Cheers
Rob

You might try a hotter primer. WSR is pretty good.
I’m also using CCI #41. But that’s a harder cup. In the past, I’ve had fail to fires with my AR 15 7.62x39 that I built. One day I totally broke down the bolt and found not only brass shavings in the firing pin channel but I also found plugs from blown out primers in there. (See pic). Once I got the whole carrier and bolt completely cleaned, I never had another issue. So now all of my ARs get extra attention in the carrier and firing pin channel.

668FFF0C-5C57-47B9-ABB3-82B9C2DD61EA.png (1.76 MiB) Viewed 7149 times

[rob cullen]

Thanks Tex
wow that is interesting , i have noticed a few bits of brass and junk in receiver when i cleaned it , i have only run about 60 rounds from new , cleaned bore thoroughly 3 times but never paid much attantion to bolt apart from visually looking at bolt face.
Anyhow - time to have a good look at bolt and will let you know what i find
Cheers
Rob

[rob cullen]

Hi all
Quick update, pulled bolt apart and all looked pretty good inside , there was a bit of surface rust on inside of bolt bore with a bit of rusty crud that im guessing is from storage , ran some patches and scotchbrite through and it cleaned up nice, no traces of brass or powder though. The rest of bolt all looked sweet and could see no issues so i gave it all a spray with Ballistor oil and wiped it down then re-assembled. PS the Bolt in the bolt rear that you need to remove was tight as hell as some you tube vids suggested to the point i thought i would brake something with allen wrench and 12'' bit of cheater pipe so i stopped as it wouldnt budge. One fella recommended undoing with a rattle gun and this actually worked a treat
As this is my first Savage i am not familiar with bolt setup but after pulling apart, the only thing i can see that may possibly hang up the firing pin is the little pin that holds the bolt face assembly setup in position . This pin has a hole through the guts for the firing pin to pass through , ie if it was installed 90 degrees out the firing pin would not pass through and you wouldnt be able to assemble the bolt.
Now im wondering if it is possible for this pin to rotate when assembled to the point where the hole in the retaining pin could rub up against the side of the firing pin and cause enough resistance to hang up the firing pin. Thinking out loud with this one but i cant see it being the case as all bolts of this design would have dramas
Any thoughts from Savage bolt owners out there?
Thanks
Rob
Update- Just been out and ran some handloads with 2205 41g and 42 Gr using FTX 200 as well as some XTP 300 wth 32.5 gr 2205. All shot pretty good but i still had two light primer strikes again , this time i lifted bolt and re cocked and they fired.
I had new starline brass on the 5 XTP 300 and 1 miss fire and the others were twice shot Hdy brass
To Date the Hdy and Fed factory rounds have had no miss fires / light pin strikes , so im starting to wonder if it may be the BR4 primers im using that is causing this problem
Has any one used these primers and had dramas?
Cheers
Rob